Should AMTRAK be kept alive??

[leenavin]

I say YES and heres a good reason why.......

Ive had the pleasure to travel across the U.S lots of times on Amtrak. Ive done full length trips (in coach every time) on the following trains - "Sunset Ltd", "Southwest Chief" and the "Capitol Ltd" and ive never had to complain once. Ive also had the pleasure of sampling 'First Class' on an Acela from New York to Washington - very nice trains I must say :)

My most recent trip was from Orlando, FL to Los Angeles, CA on the "Sunset Ltd" back in January. I travelled 'coach' all the way and really enjoyed it. Sure enough there were the expected delays due to huge BNSF freight trains hogging the tracks }> (we arrived in L.A. about 7 1/2 hours late) but it gave me more time to enjoy the scenery!! :) (lets face it, you dont get scenery like that when your on a plane!!)

I made a page on my website of my trip from New York to L.A back in summer of 2001.
Go to http://leenavinuk.tripod.com/holiday/id8.html (then click the P42 to the other pics).

Finally, compared to other countries trains ive been on, Amtrak provide a much better service. Amtrak's staff are more helpful and trains are quieter, cleaner and more efficient. I hope amtrak survives because I want to do another trip in October (was thinking of doing the 'Empire Builder then onto the 'Coast Starlight').

The U.S should be proud of its passenger rail service (im not being rude here), and I think the government should pump more money into it so it can carry on giving the excellent service it provides....

LONG LIVE AMTRAK!!!


Comments anyone??

Lee
from England
http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c8cef362b852b2f.gif

[kevarc]

In certain corridors, yes. NEC, California and a few others, but the rest should die a peacefull death.

Kevin Arceneaux

[plainsman]

I think passenger service makes sense in a country like the US. I am not sure it has been executed properly in the present form. I would think the NEC is about right as is. There should be a higher speed regional service that connects the East Coast with Pittsburg, Cleveland, and Chicago. Another should connect Atlanta, Nashville, and Dallas. The West Coast ought to get a good regional network to serve the metropolitan centers from San Diego to Seattle. Probably only one transcontinental service can be maintained at a level of service that will make it suit its purpose. This train should be marketed not as much as transportation, but as a vacation on rails. The scenery and itinerary should look more like a cruise ship than a railroad, not trying to get there quick, but see all the sights along the way, with time to explore them. Too much of "we have always done it that way" will kill the service, it really needs to think in innovative ways to get to another level of service. The future will reward a good passenger service, as airlines start to become too energy guzzling, and airports get to sprawling and crowded, as well as the traffic congestion to serve them. You can't compete on the Boston to Phoenix traffic, but you can compete on a regional basis.
Bob

[magichb]

Amtrak should be allowed to wither or thrive on its own. The total ridership does not justify the money spent to subsidise it. Our great Constitution does not call for government support of anything including Amtrak. If portions can survive in a freemarket environment that would be fantastic, but no more government handouts. Remember, it is yours and my money they are throwing away.

Brad
GT the good track road

[plainsman]

I largely disagree with your position, not so much on philosophical grounds, but if you let trucking companies and auto drivers build and maintain the highways at their expense, and force airlines to build and maintain airports at their expense, then we could do as you suggest. As long as we heavily subsidise the competition, then we will have to also support the passenger RR industry. This is not money "thrown away", as a form of passenger train service is vital to a flexible and balanced transportation system. We have started to experience the environmental consequences of the highway and airline overuse, but as time goes on, that will intensify. We need to have a RR option to use when these consequences impact the public enough to yield changes in ridership. The reduction of highway and airline subsidy may be a first step toward a healthier RR industry, including passenger traffic.
Bob

[landnrailroader]

To all those negativists who want it dead --- a pox on you.

I am retired from the railroad, and most of us retirees would rather die than get on a train, but I am not one of those. I just wish that Amtrak was subsidized to the extent that highways and airlines are, so that it would not cost so much to ride it.
As a licensed pilot, I don't want to be 10,000 ft.+ in any aluminum tube that I am not in control of myself, unless it is headed on rails into the Moffat Tunnel.

The cost has been increasing, very steadily, even as ridership has also been increasing, so if the cost were less, there would not be enough passenger cars to carry the load - not enough now really, and getting worse.

I won't travel further than a few hundred miles in Coach though, and I thoroughly disagree with anyone that thinks that is great.
We professional railroaders usually referred to Coaches as "Cattle Cars".

I always go first class, though I usually opt for an economy room if it is a one night out trip. IN 1984, my late wife and I went from Chicago to Salt Lake City, via sleeper both ways between Chicago & Denver, and Coach between Denver and Salt Lake. At that time, meals were not included in the sleeper ticket as they are now - and should remain. As I recall, our ticket was under $500. In 1/99, my wife and I traveled 8400 miles in 8 days on 5 trains, Jacksonville to Jacksonville via Seattle as it were, and the cost was about $2400. In 9/2000, she and I rode RT to Houston to see my grandchildren from Jacksonville, and it cost about $800 for the two of us. Last year, we did a 5 day package tour including RT in sleeper, Chicago to Williams, AZ, RT on the GCR, 2 nights in Williams, and one night at the Canyon. All meals were included except 2 at the canyon, and it cost about $2500. On August 29, barring any more loss of sleepers, I have a RT ticket on the Sunset to Houston, and it will cost (just me this time) $750. I figure these prices are about 2x what it should cost if reasonably subsidized and I am all for it.

If, however, they call me and tell me that I am downgraded to Coach, I will demand a refund or a rain check.

J. H. Sullivan, P.E. (retired from CSX, escaped from Southern)

[AM_ROAD]

Simple. Amtrak should be given millions to update its service and the goverment should help fund commercial service (ones that Amtrak uses its tracks). Then after 5 years Amtrak should be released privatly with little funding from the goverment to help it stay on track. And maybe the goverment should give a bonus for anyonwelse that enters the passenger service field to go against Amtrak. Know I doubt this will happen but this is what should happen. &%$# he interstates lol!

[jtr1962]

Amtrak should be kept alive, although not in it's present form. At least half the money currently spent subsidizing highways and airlines should be spent on the contruction of a nationwide series of regional high speed lines using state of the art technology, and with the running speeds of next generation TGV technology(215 to 250 mph). This will allow railroads to compete effectively with airliners on trips of up to about 900 miles, and with automobiles over any distance. A series of reginal networks crisscrossing the country will allow passenger travel coast to coast on exclusively high speed lines, and if schedules can be synchronized, such a trip could be made to take less than 20 hours. Even though this is maybe 12 hours more than a coast to coast flight, many people might opt for the train for safety and convenience reasons. A coast-to-coast maglev running in an evacuated tunnel at a few thousand mph is an even more attractive option, supplemented of course by the regional high-speed lines that I mentioned.

It is vital that our legislators stop thinking solely in terms of automobiles and airplanes. Both of these methods of transportation are environmetally destructive in the extreme. The noise, pollution, and congestion caused by these vehicles have all but made many cities nearly unlivable, and the health effects of pollution have caused medical costs to skyrocket. Each airliner is a potential cruise missile, and the ultimate economic damage from 9/11 would probably be sufficient to have constructed a nationwide high-speed network. For some people like myself automobiles and planes are not an option. Traveling long distances by automobile is slow, claustrophobic, and less than civilized. I simply refuse to board a plane at all for a variety of reasons(intrusive security, many fatal accidents, jet fuel fumes, airports inconveniently located many miles from city centers requiring time consuming and expensive additional transportation). My personal feeling is that all long distance traveling or commuting should be done by rail or maglev. Cars should be used only for running errands or getting to train stations, and should be made emission free(i.e. battery-powered). Planes should be restricted solely to overseas flights, and banned from overflying the continental United States. Ultimately, planes should be replaced even in this role with the maglev in a tube concept: http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/travel.htm

[plainsman]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-19-02 AT 11:59PM (EDT)[p]Although I agree on many points, I do want to note that battery powered vehicles are NOT emission free. To the contrary, the electric power generation process, largely fueled by coal fired plants, is actually more problematic in many ways, if enough vehicles used the electric grids to recharge. Actually, I think a better solution is natural gas powered autos for the errand service. Methane is relatively soot free, and would make a smoother transition to noncombustion solutions like solar down the road. Further, imagine the pollution problem created by the huge increase in lead acid battery disposals if these became mainstream.
Bob

[CRSD40]

I agree. Let's face it, This country is done building roads, and congestion and s are getting worse everyday. Just think how bad it would be if Amtrak shut down especially in the Northeast Corridor. We need something around to divert traffic off the roads.

[stationmaster]

Just subsidizing it to get by for another year is not enough. Amtrak needs a serious investment in infrastructure and more equipment and repairs. It is true that other modes of transportation are subsidized by user taxes, but first there were huge taxpayer investments in highways, airports and traffic control.

As for the current situation, I recommend checking out Bill Stephen's editorial at Trains.com. If you don't want to register there, it is also re-printed here:

http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=3718

Ron

[Hack]

Very well put, Bob. I also agree with my heart as I had the pleasure to ride 1st class on the Coast Starlight (LA to Seattle) this past Christams. My (short) personal opinion is that Amtrak be fully subsidized, but only if they can be completely reorganized with new management.

Cheers!

[SoRwy471]

Not too many congressmen are going to vote to eliminate it.

[McDeth]

>Amtrak should be allowed to wither or thrive on its own.
>The total ridership does not justify the money spent to
>subsidise it. Our great Constitution does not call for
>government support of anything including Amtrak. If
>portions can survive in a freemarket environment that would
>be fantastic, but no more government handouts. Remember, it
>is yours and my money they are throwing away.
>
>Brad
>GT the good track road
Do you have any idea how much money the government pays out to airlines?

[Szereck]

Better yet try engines that run on hydrogen. The only by-product of that is water.

Szereck

[AM_ROAD]

they need to let Trains Magazine run it! LOL

[Transcon]

On my Northeastern trip, I saw Amtrak's 'Empire Builder' at Wisconsin Dells, WI running on a Canadian Pacific line going into the U.S. It surprised the heck out of me at the speed it came in then I got disappointed in the crappy shape the P42s leading the train were in. Amtrak doesn't even have enough money to clean them. The Phase 5 Amtrak P42 that came in... was just shades of black like it just went through the smoke of a 100 million acre wildfire!

[Transcon]

This is how bad Amtrak is right now:

After September 11, many people flocked to Amtrak for transportation.

Revenue went up some 75% I think. (From CNN)

Amtrak is STILL losing money.



The plan: Either scrap those money losing cross-country routes, or turn it into a BUDD car route, just like VIA has done.

I think the Government should just leave Amtrak alone. If it dies, it dies.

One thing that pisses me off is that the Government didn't let Santa Fe and Southern Pacific to merge, but let UP and SP to merge 10 years later.

The Government needs to deregulate railroads!!!

[darkfyre]

The USDOT could step in right now and end this mess...
No trackage rights disputes, no strikes, higher quality rail (mebbe 100% welded rail?); fewer accidents, no scandals about monopolies, etc etc etc.



The government would probably have enough money to run the entirety of the railroads, if they sold or traded off all the current diesel and electric locomotives that weren't needed back to the companies, or sold them internationally..just P42's and TGV's running everywhere... (probably 1/8th of the current number of locomotives and cars in America)..The government, given the opportunity, could make rail travel so efficient and reliable, that it would literally CRUSH the automobile industry..Just think..no more traffic jams in LA, Washington, and Manhattan...

Ooo..here's an idea..know how NASA's trying to make stuff better, AND cheaper? do the same stuff to the railroad industry. produce trains with like 25% better fuel economy, and trains that need less maintenance. it's been done before..(compare the FP45 to the AMD103, for example)


Okay, enough of me rambling on and on, I'll let someone else have their say..

[Idahojeff]

Actually, SP+SF= Penn Central West or, failure from the start. Too much redundancy in routes (very expensive). From a bean counter's view SP+UP= $$$. UP never got to Arizona on their own (or New Mexico for that matter). As far as Amtrak goes... IF they could get the money to up-grade the NEC to what it could (should?) be. You could conceivably get from say, City Hall, Philadelphia PA. to City Hall, New York City NY, faster, by train than you could by plane. Once that situation existed, Amtrak's ridership (and by defualt) revenue, would grow exponentialy!

Jeff.

[darkfyre]

Please kindly disregard my previous post, it was done while i was about to go to sleep WAY early in the morning, yeah i know it sounded kinda off the wall...


And about the passengers growing exponentially... it would soon be the largest monopoly this nation has ever seen..bigger than Microsoft, bigger than that old hulk of a phone company (the one that got split up into AT&T, MCI, Sprint, Bell Atlantic, and others); to maintain it's growth and revenue; it'd have to swallow up other railroads to make a profit sooner or later...

face it.. amtrak's not gonna get any funding no matter what happens..regardless of the government's past mistakes with Penn Central that caused them to step in and create Conrail; I doubt it's gonna happen.. Mebbe CSX will take over Amtrak, or mebbe they're too big.. If Florida East Coast and SCL had a merger, and took over the NEC; mebbe..Then they'd become Union Atlantic..

Gawd.. In a few decades it'll be just Union Pacific (UP, Southern Pacific, part of Santa Fe/ATSF, part of Montana Rail Link and Northern Pacific), Union Central Northern (Burlington Northern/CB&Q, Wisconsin Central (if it exists still), northern part of Norfolk Southern, part of CSX, part of Santa Fe/ATSF, Montana Rail Link), Union Atlantic (FEC, SCL, Guilford Rail, Amrak, Part of CSX, and other eastern seaboard railroads) and Union Central Southern (D&RGW, part of Norfolk Southern, Part of Santa Fe, KCS, Texas Western, part of CSX)........Hmm, that has a sort of ring to it..It'd be four huge railroad monopolies, but they would all be profitable...

[BigDave]

Britain had that. In 1923 all the railway companies, except the Kent and East Sussex Light Railway, merged into (drumroll please).......

THE BIG FOUR :o :o :o :o :o
viz., The London, Midland and Scottish Railway, The London and North Eastern Railway (my favourite), The Great Western Railway, and last but not least, The Southern Railway.

They went along nicely untill -- SPLAT! Nationalisation, meaning penny-pinching, forced use of unprofitable lines and finally the desintergration of the network (MAY YOU ROT IN HELL, LORD BEECHING!!!!!). x( x( x( x( .

That is my Thruppence on the subject.

BigDave

[plainsman]

Actually this is incorrect, though it seems simple, it isn't. To get enough hydrogen to operate transportation systems, you would have to somehow generate it and compress it, I guess by processes which breakdown water into H2 and O2 or methane into H2 and carbon. This would require energy, and we are right back generating electricity with coal or oil, much worse than burning cleaner hydrocarbons. There is not a free lunch, you have to get the fuel in the form that it can be used.
Bob

[Lone_Gunman_SG]

THEN LETS MAKE SOLAR CARS!!!

SOLAR CARS!!!

SOLAR CARS!!!

SOLAR CARS!!!

SOLAR CARS!!!

SOLAR CARS!!!

[Lone_Gunman_SG]

I agree Transcon, The government should also have let the UP and GN have their little partnership. It probably would have helped trade between Canada and U.S.

[Transcon]

Goodbye Amtrak!

http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKcf7left.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKgp7left.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKcf7right.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKbagIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKbagIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKbagIII.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKmhcIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKmhcIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKmhcIII.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKxboxnew.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKxboxnew.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif

[Transcon]

GOODBYE AMTRAK!

http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKcf7left.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKgp7left.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKcf7right.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKbagIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKbagIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKbagIII.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKmhcIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKmhcIV.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKmhcIII.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKxboxnew.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKxboxnew.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/amtrak/AMTKrrleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif http://www.frograil.com/graphics/gifs/pax/marc/MARCcoachleft.gif

[BNSF_Dash9]

g'day

Amtrak should be kept alive! there is an act i believe that allows Amtrak to run over freight railroads territory - Trains Mag says if amtrak were to die - then so would that act - the passenger train in the US would be dead - Common Mr Bush - keep the best passenger service alive and well :D

Cheers mike

LONG LIVE AMTRAK!