And another thing... LOL

[tomwhite56]

This is probably just my stupidity, but check me on it, please. Installed xtacks for use with NNJ_USA, and when I copy the newest tsection.dat file the program won't load. But if I go back to the old tsection.dat, the sim loads but the route doesn't appear. No doubt I'm doing something wrong. Could someone please gently nudge me in the right direction?
OK, slap me if it'll help...

Thanks!

[DTA]

I haven't got a clue what xtracks does, so perhaps I should not reply, but I will not touch any route that requires it, because it seems to cause so many problems.

I have 12 routes now, and hundreds of activities, and they all work perfectly. I do not fancy reinstalling everything again, just for one piece of faulty software.

David

[sniper297]

Probably depends on what you have and how you installed it. Best is to download the latest Xtracks 3.1, and install that according to the simple directions, and that's it - don't try sticking in another tsection.dat file from god knows where, Xtracks 3.1 already has the newest one.

A little history of Xtracks, back in May of 2001 the Klutzy Kuju Klowns were loafing around the shop goofing off, and a Microsoft Marketing Moron came in and said "we're shipping next month whether you're ready or not". There was only one right hand manual switch that worked, none of the single/double slip switches worked, the crossovers were a joke, and there were only just enough different radius curves to build the six default routes. So they whacked it together at the last minute, and tossed in unsupported editing tools to let the fans finish the job if we could figure out how.
Along comes a Wizard named Okrasa Ghia, and he begins to create and activate all the track pieces that should have been there but weren't. I advised people to use Xtracks with caution, and to include a warning with their routes, since the use of these new track sections required altering the end user's MSTS installation to get the route to work. It also required modification of all six default routes, plus any add-on routes not based on Xtracks, or they wouldn't work with the modified tsection.dat file in the \Global folder.
David Beach helped Okrasa with hacking the tsection.dat file to make it more compatible with standard routes, and the latest version of Xtracks (3.1) is currently installed on my system, and it does not conflict with any non-Xtracks route, and no longer requires modification of default/non-Xtracks add-on routes. Again, that's if it's installed correctly, and Okrasa reccommends making a backup copy of the \Train Simulator\Global folder before installing, so if it don't work for you, you can just delete the \Global folder and replace it with the backup instead of having to re-install MSTS.
David's assessment of "faulty software" for Xtracks 1 and 2 is correct, it was, after all, beta testing a whole new mod. But that no longer applies to Xtracks 3.1, if you remember to copy your \Global folder to another location, and follow the simplified instructions for non-route developers, it's now a foolproof and failsafe modification.

[OTTODAD]

Here I go again, trying to teach somebody to "Suck Eggs" :-)

I know it's a pain in the arse doing Back-Ups ! My last MSTS Directory Back-Up took 45 minutes to COPY 54000+ files to another Drive Partition, on a FAST machine with FAST drives. You probably got more files than that, considering all your Add-Ons ?

But it paid off when a rogue single Loco Install shortly afterwards screwed up MSTS, refusing to Load ! :-) Took another 45 minutes to restore MSTS .:-( I now Back-Up before EVERY Install, including Commercial ones ! Remember the problems I had with JUST TRAIN's, now sorted by them with a FIX.

Plenty of time to get some "Work" done on my Programming Machine :-)

[OTTODAD]

Thanks for this Lesson on the History of MSTS and XTracks, SNIPER :-)

I bought MSTS as soon as it was released, but started using it more seriously only recently, my workload supporting my Software in the U.K. having dropped off sharply.

I too got Version 3.1 with the N.&.N.J. a couple of days ago, NO PROBLEMS.

Trying to get in touch with TEEMU to find out whether there is likely to be another UPDATE to improve on the still occuring severe 0-1 FpS Slowdowns, I am waiting to hear from him.

Do you think that all these brilliant Add-Ons will be compatible with the next release of MSTS, which surely must be an almost total re-write of the current Code to take advantage of the latest Graphics Cards and DirectX 9 ? May have to be tweaked here and there, the same as the FS2000 ones had to be to run on the new Graphics Terrain Meshing in FS2002 ?

Why does KUJU not ask these guys to sell them their Code, like XTracks, for inclusion into the next Release of MSTS. May have to be altered here and there, but their programmers should know how to do that alright ? I am sure they would get their money back 10-fold :7

Perhaps they should contact KUJU to give them the idea ?

[harpman]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-16-02 AT 12:53PM (EDT)[p]Same thing happens here. I followed the directions to the letter. When I installed XTracks, installed the update to XTracks making it 3.1 then do the NNJ install and run the install.bat program. Start MSTS and it begins to load up and then I get the "encountered an error..yada yada, Inform MS?" deal we've all seen!

I go back and move the NNJ folder out of the TrainSim folder, and go back..Train Sim works. Move the NNJ back..it doesn't. So then I tried not using the 300kb tsection.dat file and resort to the original....by this time I can't recall what happens.
End result:
I delete NNJ. Sorry.

Last week when it happened it screwed MSTS so bad I couldn't use it and had to do a COMPLETE reinstall...redid all the routes, etc. Go back to try NNJ...same thing.
End result:
I delete NNJ..won't try it again until someone
can decipher what it is I'm doing wrong.

I'm no newcomer to this stuff...I've beta'd for more than one group..did the East Metro, Bodiddly and others so I'm not dumb. This would be MUCH better if an installer simply did the work, and no trick track programs were necessary. Oh well.

bill

[OkrasaGhia]

Tom, what other routes do you have installed? You did put the tsection.dat in your global folder, not in the USA_NNJ folder? Your problem sounds like you have a different route needing some specialised tsection.dat or some error (by you I'm afraid) when installing XTracks.

David, XTracks has gone a LONG way these past six months. While your statement had some truth in it with the first versions (there's NO documentation of how it works supplied with MSTS) the current version is much more stable and I hardly get any mail asking for support nowdays (and that's not because it aint downloaded).

Sniper, thanks for your kind words. Please also remember those brave people doing beta testing before version 1.0 (yes it was quite substantially tested before that early release) and others doing early experiments with track sections (not least Jim Steven if anyone remembers him).

Bill, your problem definitely sounds like an error in the installation of NNJ. If it works without a route but not with the route it is very likely the route causing the problem. There's a number of things that could go wrong though; you need the previous version first as the latest is only an update and you need to run some batch-files to finalize the installation (as you mention).
Also, you did copy all the s & sd-files for XTracks to the correct location (the GLOBAL-folder)? If not you could experience similar problems.
NNJ needs XTracks, no question about that. But neither NNJ or XTracks should call for a complete re-install of MSTS unless you did something else not called for.

If you keep the original tsection.dat XTracks is quite easy to uninstall, simply restore the original tsection.dat in the GLOBAL-folder.

//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia

http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3be264077268847e.gif

Steam: 0-4-0T #9, 0-6-0 #12, 0-8-0 #15, 2-6-0 #25, 2-8-0 #27, 2-6-6-2 #37, 2-8-2 #40, 4-6-2 #56
Diesels: SW8 #16, F3 #53, F7 #54, FP7 #57, Budd RDC #61, TrainMaster #88

[harpman]

Thanks....I'm going to work up the courage to try the install again this weekend. Since you've taken the time to post to the group in an effort to fix what I'm apparently doing wrong...I should take the time to try it again. I'll let you know how it works out.

Bill

[henry3]

Hey Sniper!!

If you can flesh out that "history" with few more lines, I might be able to get some outfit like Sybex to wrap a binder around it and sell it! :)

Henry

[tomwhite56]

Thanks for your reply. I have the Bodiddly route installed, that's the only thing that was changed from default before I tried NNJ.

Tom

>Tom, what other routes do you
>have installed? You did put
>the tsection.dat in your global
>folder, not in the USA_NNJ
>folder? Your problem sounds like
>you have a different route
>needing some specialised tsection.dat or
>some error (by you I'm
>afraid) when installing XTracks.
>
>David, XTracks has gone a LONG
>way these past six months.
>While your statement had some
>truth in it with the
>first versions (there's NO documentation
>of how it works supplied
>with MSTS) the current version
>is much more stable and
>I hardly get any mail
>asking for support nowdays (and
>that's not because it aint
>downloaded).
>
>Sniper, thanks for your kind words.
>Please also remember those brave
>people doing beta testing before
>version 1.0 (yes it was
>quite substantially tested before that
>early release) and others doing
>early experiments with track sections
>(not least Jim Steven if
>anyone remembers him).
>
>Bill, your problem definitely sounds like
>an error in the installation
>of NNJ. If it works
>without a route but not
>with the route it is
>very likely the route causing
>the problem. There's a number
>of things that could go
>wrong though; you need the
>previous version first as the
>latest is only an update
>and you need to run
>some batch-files to finalize the
>installation (as you mention).
>Also, you did copy all the
>s & sd-files for XTracks
>to the correct location (the
>GLOBAL-folder)? If not you could
>experience similar problems.
>NNJ needs XTracks, no question about
>that. But neither NNJ or
>XTracks should call for a
>complete re-install of MSTS unless
>you did something else not
>called for.
>
>If you keep the original tsection.dat
>XTracks is quite easy to
>uninstall, simply restore the original
>tsection.dat in the GLOBAL-folder.
>
>//Okrasa
>Chief Engineer
>okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
>http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia
>
>http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3be264077268847e.gif
>
>Steam: 0-4-0T #9, 0-6-0 #12, 0-8-0
>#15, 2-6-0 #25, 2-8-0 #27,
>2-6-6-2 #37, 2-8-2 #40, 4-6-2
>#56
>Diesels: SW8 #16, F3 #53, F7
>#54, FP7 #57, Budd RDC
>#61, TrainMaster #88

[Johansteam]

Sniper, your history on Xtracks is really excellent. Thanks for the enlightment.
BTW... I've also installed version3.1 and it works perfect. Nil hitches. For Xtracks would I herewith say a BIG "THANKYOU" to Okrasa the "Chief Engineer". May Xtracks go from strenght to strenght.
Johan.

[Smooz]

I had tried to lay track without Xtracks. It was extremely difficult. So I started using the dynamic track a lot.

I then noticed some weird things happening with water and dynamic tracks. After looking in the forum here, I found that I wasn't the only one with that problem.

I also read a lot of the history about Xtracks, and I was very scared to try it. I read several cautions by you, Sniper, and since you seemed to know what you were saying, I decided against Xtracks.

Then I continued reading and saw that v3.1 was out. I saw the favorable comments, so I thought, "Why not?"

I am happy to say that I am quite pleased that I did. I have created a yard, based on the prototypical one, without one piece of dynamic track--actually, I have about 5-6 more tracks to bring together before I can say it is done.

This yard does NOT follow any nice layout so it could be recreated with MSTS default tracks. But with the additions that are included in XTracks, it is kind of like putting together a jigsaw puzzle! Find the right combination of pieces and it will go together.

So, even though my experience with laying track may not be as much as many here, what little bit I have done shows that XTracks is quite worth it.

The only problem I have had, and I have no idea if it is XTracks related or what, is that Marias3 will not run....it crashes the sim. I have tried to install it twice, but to no avail.

Other than that, I have had no problems that I could attribute to XTracks.

Smooz

[sniper297]

Bodiddly doesn't make or require any modifications, so it's not a factor. The most likely explanation is incorrectly installed, or you have a corrupted zipfile for either NNJ or Xtracks.
If you didn't make a backup before installing, the best thing to do is copy your \Train Simulator\Trains\ folder to a backup, uninstall MSTS, then delete the \Train Simulator folder to get rid of all the orphans, and do a clean re-install. Then make the critical backups before installing anything else, Xtracks alters the \Global folder, add-on trains and activities that include non-default consists alter the \Trains folder, so those are the two critical ones you need to back up.

http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d11fb92377344d6.jpg

I keep two sets of \Trains folders, one is the \Trains folder I play with, the other is \Theirtrains, which is a backup of the default MSTS trainset and consist folders that I use when I'm developing activities, so I'm sure that any consist called for in one of my activities is something everyone else already has. If you're not developing activities for others you don't need double backups, just create a new folder outside of \Train Simulator, named \Backup or whatever, and copy the \Global folder and the \Trains folder to the backup. To restore the originals, you only have to delete \Train Simulator\Global\ or \Train Simulator\Trains\, then copy the backup and paste it in.

http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d11fbaf37d26bd3.jpg
Aside from the Xtracks issue, which alters only the \Global folder, most add-on routes do not make changes to the default MSTS installation, when you delete the \portogden5 folder (for example) from \Routes, it's gone. The only exceptions are add-on mods to default routes designed to replace default routes, in which case it would be a good idea to back up the default route being replaced, to avoid having to re-install MSTS.

[OkrasaGhia]

Smooz, nothing XTracks related with Marias3. Should be no different than the original Marias as far as XTracks go.

Tom, same thing with Bodiddly, should not make a difference as neither XTracks nor any other add on track sections are used in that route. Makes me think you missed something in the installation; s- & sd-files to the 'global/shapes' folder, new 'tsection.dat' to the 'global' folder. That's it! Do not do anything with the textures unless you're going to build a route of your own. You could try it with only the original six routes installed (move the others to a temporary folder). If it works then your problem has todo with one of the extra routes. Move them back to the 'routes' folder one by one to see which one.

Johan, thanks! My pleasure.

//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia

http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3be264077268847e.gif

Steam: 0-4-0T #9, 0-6-0 #12, 0-8-0 #15, 2-6-0 #25, 2-8-0 #27, 2-6-6-2 #37, 2-8-2 #40, 4-6-2 #56
Diesels: SW8 #16, F3 #53, F7 #54, FP7 #57, Budd RDC #61, TrainMaster #88

[tomwhite56]

No more replies with quotes! :-)

Ooh, oooh! My feet are dancin'! Did a clean reinstall, upload, and route install and everything's great. I roll around the NNJ lines like nobody's business. Thanks so much! Just one more question, and probably a dumb one...
The installation is at default except for the New Jersey route and Xtracks. When I backed up as instructed, I also backed up routes. Is it safe for me to move Bodiddly complete into the Routes folder, or am I playing with fire, and should just settle down and download everything fresh again? I'm guessing the latter, but you never know...
Thank you everyone for your kind assistance and advice! Happy railroading to everyone!

Tom

:D :D :D

[OkrasaGhia]

Should be safe, try it and see what happens. If it does not work remove it again and reinstall it from scratch.
I've moved routes in & out of my routes-folder many times while testing things regarding XTracks.

//Okrasa
Chief Engineer
okrasaghia @ yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/okrasaghia

http://www.trainsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3be264077268847e.gif

Steam: 0-4-0T #9, 0-6-0 #12, 0-8-0 #15, 2-6-0 #25, 2-8-0 #27, 2-6-6-2 #37, 2-8-2 #40, 4-6-2 #56
Diesels: SW8 #16, F3 #53, F7 #54, FP7 #57, Budd RDC #61, TrainMaster #88