View Full Version : Pro Sim?
06-19-2002, 08:16 AM
I was at EB yesterday and saw an add-on to MSTS called Pro Sim (Gemrn route and trains). Anyone here buy it yet and is it worth the $32.99 CAD? Thx.
06-19-2002, 01:39 PM
Pro Sim is unknown to me, I only know Pro Train. They have two add-ons by now.
The first one, "Along the Rhine" is IMHO a dissapointing one and not worth the money.
I don't have purchased the second one, Leipzig - Dresden, but the reviews are good. It seems to have major improvements compared to the first one.
But I am doubting if it worth to spend that money when you can have several good German routes and German rolling stock for free.
Here is the link for Pro-Train:
Dick van den Hoven
I have Pro Train I and I actually enjoy it. But I seem to be in the minority.
I don't think anyone has done night scenary as well as they have. And I enjoy running a German freight -- you have to download frieght cars and locomotives because they don't come with Pro Train I -- on a summer night with a heads out view. I love looking off into the distance and seeing cities and towns along the hill sides all lit up.
But one of the things I love most about Trainsim in general is all the international routes. So, I think it is worth it, but like I said I think I am in a distinct minority here.
NYNE - You are not alone. UPS delivered Pro Train 1 just this morning - I am "exploring" along the left (south and west) bank of the Rhine with a "Color" DB 103 and string of coaches. Thus far I think the scenery is well done - the Frankfurt Hbf in particular is quite good, for me it is at any rate. I have compared the "Deutsche-strecken" version with photos of the real article (Euro Railway Server, could not live without it) - and while not every detail is there, the essentials certainly are and the overall effect is excellent. Naturaly, I'll be looking for the cathedral in Cologne - I will lay good money it's there, too.
I don't like most of the "2D" trees, but that is typical of many TS routes - maybe we can do something about it. I solved the shimmering, jumping, marching ants, moire pattern track problem with a couple of files, one of which I hacked myself - so trees might be next.Spittler's "Real Pines" might be adaptable, ditto the aspens another fellow has published - also the grass at certain places on the Rhine bank has got to go, it looks like a popsicle truck accident.
I have sort of been turning over the idea of an "American Friends of Euro Railways" group within the TS community - I love the Euro RR's and am sure others do too. Maybe we could persuade Nels to create a forum section for this?
If you haven't discovered Trenomania yet (Italian, of course) you are really missing it. Everything you can imagine in the way of FS equipment, routes, scenery, activities,you name it - all free for the downloading. Google hasn't yet translated this entire website for me, but I have the Systran software and it gets me through.
Don't feel like the man with the silver bullets, NYNE - there's bound to be many more of us out there.
Let's talk it up.
06-20-2002, 01:30 AM
LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-02 AT 01:31AM (EDT)[p]But look out! buying directly from ProTrain developer may be dangerouse - I've ordered ProTrain 2 on 5 or 6 June I was charged on 07.06.02 and I still waiting for the route!!!! I send them several emails - no answer yet - I don't know what is going on. I hope that they didn't cheat me!! The funniest thing is that I received all my addons from Justrtains in less then 7 days, but from Germany which is only 600 km ( 6 h by train) from my country they cannot deliver my addon till the present day. Their support is also far from perfect (they didn't answer to any of my emails) - but I still hope that I will receive my copy. In one word this doesn't look good :-(.
06-20-2002, 05:55 AM
I got both Pro Train Add-ons. The first one was rather disappointing because of the roughly made terrain and vegetation and so on. The second Pro Train Add-on which covers the route between Dresden and Leibzig is much better. It has got the best Scenery i've seen so far in a MSTS route. Four engines (3 electric one diesel) are included (of course with cabs and sounds) and a lot of passenger- and fraightcars including two passenger cabcars. In the activities a lot of traffic is going on (often more than 7 trains in on of the bigger stations) what demands a fast computer to use it witch "enjoyable" graphicsettings. It may have some minor failures and the price (as most MSTS addons) is much to high , but it is a very cool german route.
I had a look at the trenomania site (http://www.trenomania.it) and there is indeed a lot of interesting material there. Anything in particular that you'd like to recommend?
06-20-2002, 11:48 AM
I ordered my Pro Train 1 directly from the company and it was shipped and delivered within 14 days. I also emailed the company about a couple of issues (language probs and consists) and received prompt and courteous replies. I can't believe that you're getting no response deliberately, they seem genuinely nice and responsible vendors to me.
As for the route... if you like long passenger routes, with plenty of gorgeous scenery, then this one's for you. And as for Cologne... it's just like in real life. Fantastic. The Audi plant was my favourite part of MSTS until Rich put the Esso plant in his WV&ORR. German signalling takes a bit of getting used to though...
06-20-2002, 12:24 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-02 AT 12:25PM (EDT)[p]Have you received confirmation that you bought your addon??? I haven't but my money dissapeared from my bank account. I send them 3 mails - I received answer (today) from machine so I'm waiting for their reaction. I don't know how long the parcel should travel to my country - this is not the point the point is that I don't know what is going on (because they didn't react). I also bought several addons from justtrains they delivered them in less than 7 days (from England) but Germany are only 600 km from my country so I think that I shouldn't wait 13 days for parcel. I still have hope that they didn't cheat me (simply steal my money) but I need confirmation from Blue-Sky that everything is ok.
LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-02 AT 02:13PM (EDT)[p]Rob - I would start with the Bolzone - Brennero route - a/k/a "verfresn'. First download ALL the parts - there are six separate zip files. Then - this is important - create a temporary directory. If you are a high stakes roller at the crap table you can do this within your TS directory, for mere mortals it is not recommended.When all else fails - do what the instructions say.
Create the dir and unzip ALL the files into it. Activate scenarioITA.exe - it will automatically access all 28 other files - yes, there are 28 - and install the route in a sub-folder of your TEMP dir. Not Train sim.
Then ... copy the "verfresn" (sure wish I knew what that meant) folder into your TS Routes folder and away you go. A little different, but it works as advertised and you have a nice little Italian mountain route which runs from Bolzone up to Brenner Pass - 25 km and relaxing because it is short and sweet. When you explore, start on Bolzone Track 5, else be prepared to throw points, or you will run thru walls and static rr cars.
The "activites" are nothing more than "Explore" with a Khia, starting on different Bolzone tracks, no AI traffic of any kind, which was a little disappointing. I have an activity for Bol-Bre which requires a number of add'l trains and cars, to be done in the hopefully near future.
Right now I am busy with ProTrain 1 and having an absolutely wonderful time: Pulled into Cologne from the left bank route (the south and west bank line thru Koblenz and Bonn)- as I approached Koeln Hbf - wow! There was Cologne cathedral, right where it oughter be. While I think the scenery in places could be better, I don't think it is all that bad to begin with - this might be a system problem for some. As I was traveling the route I was thankful for my new rig.
One of the better uses of fog tables I've seen to date - I don't remember TS routes other than PT1 that DO use fog tables, matter of fact. Not saying that designers have not used them, I just haven't seen them or if I did was not aware of their existence. Along the banks of the Rhine is a perfect place to use fog tables, which certainly has something to do with their effectiveness.
My only question is: What happened to Remagen bridge? There are few bridges more famous than this one - I swear I saw it in the distance when I approached from the south. But when I pulled into Remagen town - no bridge! Maybe the American GI's took it with them when they left? Strange. Just ... isn't ... there. (Rod Serling music in background.)
I can't speak for buying direct from the publisher. I live in the US and in this case I used GameStop.com - Babbage online, I believe - they do a pretty good job of stocking TSW add-ons which (my preferred) Chips and Bits for some reason don't. I got good price and excellent service.
ProTrain 2 was originally scheduled by GameStop for June 18 - GameStop were prompt in changing that two days ago. June 25 is now their projected delivery date. I don't advance order, I wait until the item is actually in stock, then I order.
That's good news on Vol 2, so I'll probably order that also. Both of them are no more money than most single computer games I've bought - lots of them so bad I don't even keep them on the HD.
How about a forty dollar WW2 naval tactical combat sim from a major publisher - with no land forms? Why? I am not making this up - the reason given for omitting land forms was it was too much work. Too difficult for their programmers. What was there was also infested with insects, small and large. Forty bucks down the drain.
Good Euro stuff, guys, the majority of the stuff is free for the taking. If you have problems with the language or installation, let me know. I am no language expert - English is difficult enough for me - but I have translation software and friends and manage to get the stuff running.
BTW, if it is beautiful locos you like, many of the FS (Italian State Railways - Ferrovie dello Stato) units found at Trenomania are featured in larger, better images here: http://digilander.iol.it/pek317/ - Virtual Train - Italia. I especially like the E402B, I have it running with a string of matching Xmpr coaches and it looks great, just beautiful.
If you like creating your own working sounds for your It. locos, there is a "kit" available, also at Trenomania - Suono_Italiano.zip, instructions included. The ReadMe.txt is in English translation - as railfans did we ever have it as good as we do right now?
I get the feeling I am writing something of an English language 'zine or newsletter for TS'ers interested in European (and other foreign) railways. I hope Nels doesn't mind me using the space, but would consider starting such a newsletter if there were demand for such.
What do you think about this? Drop me a line at: firstname.lastname@example.org
06-20-2002, 02:52 PM
I bought this add on while in Florida but have not installed it.
I am glad to see that I am not alone. I have ordered PT II, but it hasn't arrived yet -- it's only been a couple of days, though. I have also visited Trenomania and second your endorsement and add that Sebastian Frey (sp) also runs an excellent site where I downloaded a lot of DB freight and passenger equipment.
I think a friends of Eurorails is a great idea. I would like to see a virtual railroad built around one of these routes too. Unfortunately, I don't have the Web experience to launch it myself. But I will certainly keep my eyes open and who knows maybe I will get smarter in the not so distant future.
I don't know about the virtual railroad. Never understood how that works - can I be virtually out to lunch whenever I want?
I'm thinking of a user's group of sorts - Americans and other English speaking persons with an interest in foreign railroading and equipment. Don't have to launch a big website or anything like that - could be a mailing list or a newsletter, something along those lines. There are already too many websites out there that don't do much of anything, why contribute to the glut?
Don't overlook http://www.thetrain.de/ for tons of DB equipment, activites and routes. A prime DB source, though at times I like Sebastian's site better. When thetrain.de say "!!!langsamger server!!!" they ain't kidding.
http://www.trainsimaustria.at.tt/ is devoted to OBB (Austrian) equipment and contains the excellent Arlbergbahn, an electrified Innsbruck-St. Anton route.
http://mikemad.de/msts.htm -- you gotta visit MadMike for some of the best DB steam you'll see, absolutely juicy operating valve gear and he has the one, the only, the beautiful shrouded BR01-10 which I always lusted after in Maerklin but could never, ever afford. I got'em now and love it. Und .. MadMike does some nice freight cars, too.
Finally; you don't have the new Wupper Express you are missing a rare treat. Getcher self to Herr Koelsche's site: http://www.graphics15.de/ and download the route. Great urban four and six track action - he has cars and trucks in version 5, too. The designer is a graphics professonal - I think it shows in his work.
See - there I go again, writing that newsletter.
I haven't checked out Wupper, but I definitely will now.
One of my favorite European routes has been the Utrecht-Arnhem Route. That was the one that got me hooked on European routes. A great place to run all of those great Dutch trains by Chris Longhurst of www.christrains.com and www.msts.nl where you can download some of his fantastic models. I ended up building a series of activities so I could run a whole shift over the line driving trains between Utrecht and Arnhem and other cities on the route.
What I would like to see is an Asian route or two, aside from those that came with Trainsim. I especially want to try out those nice Chinese models I have been seeing on the Web. And what about an African route?
Before Trainsim came along I was a modeller but I haven't touched the models since. I love being able to drive trains all over the world. A few years ago I would have ignored trains from other parts of the world but now, I can't get enough of them.
Anyway, if you set up the list, I am in.
By the way, there was a review of Pro Train II on www.uktrainsim.com -- another great site for European (UK) trains -- and they sait it was great.
Bing: Thanks for the Bolzone - Brennero tip; I've installed it and it is indeed a nice little route, though the opaque tunnel entrance was a little unnerving the first time I hit it! Now I'm off to find some Italian trains to run.
NYNE: I too wholeheartedly recommend the Wupper, especially if you like modern European mainline running. A large and complex route.
All: I've started a new thread to see if there is any support for an International forum here. Do take a look if you're interested.
06-21-2002, 09:23 AM
>Pro Sim is unknown to me,
>I only know Pro Train.
Oops! I meant *Pro Train*, sorry. Pro Sim is a car racing sim in development by Codemasters.
I've never seen Pro Train2 over here in Canada and have only seen Pro Train appearing on shelves recently. Thx all for the comments. I think I would like it but it costs almost as much as the complete MSTS goes for now so maybe it isn't very good value for the dollar.
06-21-2002, 09:28 AM
>the shimmering, jumping, marching ants,
>moire pattern track problem with
>a couple of files, one
>of which I hacked myself
Is it possible to get a copy of your files that fix the moire pattern in the tracks? This is something that really annoys me in
MSTS and would really appreciate having the fix you mention above.
06-27-2002, 01:15 PM
We have long planed to create a Chinese route, however, it's
hard to find public available DEM data or anything similar for
China. So we are more focus on the locomotive modelling.
One of my friend has created a set of gantries which are used
in Chinese national railway system, this is one small step
towards a route.
But we are planning:=)))
Come on over to http://www.trains-station.com/ ... Forums ... European Addons Discussion, per message I posted earlier today on this forum. I've been thinking the same as you for some time. Stefan Jansen agreed and we have that platform now. Please talk it up - per my previous, there is no intention to compete with Nels in any way.
Thanks for your support,
Apparently we have lost the function to reply privately to a forum member's posting.
Send me your e-mail address - I am: email@example.com
I'll e-mail the texture files to you. The package is a 511 Kb zip file, usually not a problem even for dialups. I have standardized the gray-based roadbed, ballast and a hack of the railheads which removes the shine - that alone was eriving me nuts. And for some of us it is a short trip ...
06-27-2002, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the hint on the Italian routes, Bing! Downloaded a bunch of the wonderful steamers from http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/il_deposito/RA.htm today and would sure like to have some place to run them :-) . I especially like the new Gr.670 cab-forward:
This was, in fact, the world's first cab-forward steam engine to be built. Due to her large windshields she was nicknamed "Mucca", meaning "Cow". She was a 4-6-0 four-cylinder compound (Plancher design) express engine originally built by the Adriatic Railway before nationalization. Note that the tender is not coupled to the engine via drawbar, but rather with standard chain couplers like a normal wagon. The tender also carries only the water tank - the coal bunker is inserted into the top of the cab roof. I guess this means that the tender could also be coupled to the "front" end of the engine, enabling the loco to be run with the smokestack in front like a "normal" steamer.
I dont know if you're also into Euro steamers, but if you are and happen to be looking for some Italian ones, the site I gave the link to in this message is well worth a look.
Ok Bing, I've signed up at trains-station.com and I'll start to keep an eye on the forums there.
I see. Well, I want to say that I love your models and keep them coming.
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