View Full Version : was this Editor used to make the Route for the Game? I doubt it.
06-13-2001, 11:56 PM
I am quite sure that the route for the game was made using a bigger faster computer workstation with good software. The editor we have is a quick attempt to devise something that runs on a PC. This is a poor piece of software that even Microsoft disowns!
06-14-2001, 12:18 AM
I am sooo hoping that one day someone will provide a hack that will allow us to introduce DEM data into the program. I think that would be a great leap forward.
Heck, i'd be happy if Microsoft would just make a statement as to what is going on with that feature.
I dont think it will be too hard to get there one day. I know lots of 3rd party programs have been hacked for MS Flight Sim. In fact a hack to introduce DEM data was developed for FS 98. If it can be done for FS then surely the same can be done for MSTS. I just think it will be a matter of time.
I've tried manually working with terrain over a large route and let me tell you its very very time consuming. It can be done but it is a slow process. I still continue to work with it, and learn, but I think it stretches project time out a lot. Lets just say lack of accurate terrain already provided took a little wind out of my sail but by no means ruined the game for me. I still enjoy it a ton and fire it up every day for a little while , even the route editor ;)
Best Regards to All!!!
Jim (HUGE advocate of DEM for MSTS)
Slogan for 2001, DEM for Train Sim!!!
TomGoodrick, you are absolutely on track (no pun intended). Two more words: COMPLAIN NOW!
Kuju = }>
07-24-2001, 10:51 PM
Lack of hack to produce easy terrains? It looks like I'll be making a few Midwestern US rail lines for a while.... :)
07-24-2001, 11:16 PM
I am reasonably certain that they used a different editor. I have looked at track segments that have an elevation angle that can not be achieved using the editor supplied.
07-24-2001, 11:26 PM
FEEL HAPPY THEY PUT AN EDITOR!!!! UNTIL FS 2K PRO WE HAD TO USE 3RD PARTY ADD-ON EDITORS!! MS MAY HAVE NOT PAYED A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THE EDITOR BUT I'D RATHER HAVE IT THAN NOT... I'VE BEEN WANTING THE L SINCE I HEARD OF THE MSTS, AND I KNEW IT'D BE A WORK TO GET IT. BUT I'M HAPPY! B/C IT'S BETTER THAN BAHN 3.7 THAT I WAS USING BEFORE!
07-25-2001, 12:20 AM
LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-01 AT 00:22AM (EST)[p]There is a hack and it's much better than anything MS could have come up with. It was built by John Stanford and works perfectly as the pictures in the first thread will attest (my SS's). Go here first and disregard the link on my thread. Use the one here below:
Here is the updated program below and you will need MicroDEM also ( use the search to find it in the forums somewhere, I cant' remember, John gives the address in his first or second thread about his extractor)
Then go here for a tutorial.
Good Luck, it changed everything for me, David
07-25-2001, 12:39 AM
Yeah, you whippersnappers don't know when you have it easy. Why, we used to have to walk twelve miles to school. In the snow. Uphill. Both ways.
Actually I used the DEM proggie to convert, combine and import the Santa Barbara and Goleta California 7.5' DEM's into the route editor, the other night. worked like a champ. I even poured water into the ocean (a little harder to figure out). Now I'm trying to figure out which of two SoCal branches I'm going to model.
07-25-2001, 01:30 AM
LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-01 AT 01:31AM (EST)[p]MicroDEM can be had here:
07-25-2001, 12:13 PM
There is no evidence that this editor was not used to create all the routes. So far we have not found anything done on the stock routes we haven't been able to implement as far as I know.
There are too many little hacks in the editor which wouldn't have been put in if Kuju hadn't needed them. They wouldn't have had it make .bk files if it hadn't crashed regularly for them.
Did they build mountains in it? no. Their geometry extractor included the DEM terrain build data which they either disabled or didn't document. And after the number of troubles people have with different flavors of DEM's I can't blame them.
You are also wrong on track grades. When rotating track hold down the 'end' key while rotating with the arrows. And you can always edit the .w world data to match anything you want.
At the UK launch last week the people from Kuju assured everyone there the routes were created using the editor. However bear in mind it took two or three people working professionally on average three months to create each route. That's a lot of people hours (assuming they were putting in 12 hour shifts, some of the time).
To set the exact tangent for your gradient, use the end key in conjunction with the 8 or 2 key on the Numpad to make fine adjustments to three decimal places. (Another undocumented feature).
07-25-2001, 03:28 PM
Guys, relax. Micr$s$ft has made a deal with Discreet (the maker of 3DS Max 4) and Discreet is now going to provide a (good) editor with (to begin with) MS Flight Sim 2002. And then we will have to wait......to see what Micr$s$ft wants to do in the future
07-25-2001, 03:42 PM
It may have been a different (read more stable) version of "the" editor. As much as it crashes, there is simply not enough time to create a reasonably size route with all the details. Can you imagine writing a book, but having to save after every sentence and re-starting the program (at least) each page?
07-25-2001, 04:59 PM
I don't think they had a more stable version of the editor, once you get to know the traps they are easy to avoid. Also it's worth noting that the editor becomes quite stable on high-end computers. I have 2 PC's and on my old 650Mhz PIII, 256 ram it needs to be restarted every 1 1/2 hours or so. But with the better setup 1070Mhz PIII and 512 ram, I haven't seen had a real data-loosing crash yet. The amount af RAM seems to be the issue with the editor, and I don't believe that the level-makers were running on a low-end system.
If anyone have ever tried the level-editor that shipped with Tomb Raider 5 (Only the very first version), then these problems should be well-known, the TR5 editor didn't demand much CPU power, but with less than 128M of ram it was almost imposible to run, with 256M it was flying and never crashing (they later made a patch that reduced the Ram-need).
It also have to be remembered the amount of data needed to build a route here, +250 Mb is often seen in the directories (Where the shape files are compressed), add the program itselve, the stuff needed from the global folder and windows in the background and you're in for it.
I have noticed that most of the problems I've seen shows up after altering height of the terrain, especially when experimenting with aligning tracks and using the "y" function many times. Also working with dynamic rails seems to draw resources out..
But if you have a powerfull computer, I think it's pritty fair that you need to restart every 2-3 hours. Then you'll also have an excuse for getting a bit away from the screen..
07-26-2001, 09:58 AM
I have to agree that it appears to be a memory problem with crashes, because I haven't run into too many problems with creating routes. My first test route at this point is getting fairly involved and I have yet to encounter a data losing crash. I am using a pentium 466 MHZ system I custom built with loads of RAM and a high end video card and I haven't been running into most of the problems I see people in here are complaining about. Maybe I am just lucky (crossing fingers :-) lol) but I think it is an issue with the memory.
08-03-2001, 11:36 AM
1. It's the End key on the main part of the keyboard, not the one on the keypad.
2. Interesting. I'm an inclined plane railroad fan, and I tried changing the elevation in the .w file to .25 radians (about 15 degrees). Route Edit obediently constructed the blue posts, etc., but the track texture is missing. Any body know what is the real limiting factor?
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