SurvivorSean
03-05-2005, 10:43 PM
Hello Everyone:
I'd like to say it's good to be back from vacation, but in reality it is not. I spent 15 days traveling across Canada and though at times as exhausting as travelling coach is, and spending 16+ hours a day in a dome car. After a few days recovery, I can't wait to do it again. This trip energised me in why I love railroading, and why I want to do something about it on my PC.
I'd like to suggest a concept to everyone. Forgive me if this has been suggested before perhaps either here, or on the main MSTS board. In the next paragraph I'll try and be brief, and following paragraphs go into detail on what I'd like to try. It is not true multi-player, though it does involve, and require more than 1 person to participate as either a pair or a group for it to succeed.
The concept in a nutshell is MP activities. Where 2 or more people share a list of information involving a chosen route (IE Full Bucket Line), and chosen power and cars as in what power, rolling stock all users will have, and where to get it from. Users would handshake by creating activities for others to utilize. In return once the recipient receives the activity they in turn would write a new activity and the cycle would continue.
Of course because the activity editor is used, this would not be a traditional MP session. This also should not be confused with a virtual railroad (or at least from what I understand it as). A virtual railroad to my understanding has activity writers. But the activities are then used by many people who download them. They accumulate hours etc, and move up in rank etc. What my concept would be can be done in as small a group as 2 people. But can include many more if it is organized into a system of trains that server a purpose.
This is something I wanted to do for some time. The MP community was something that had actually made things interesting enough not to bother to deal with the activity editor, and just get online and participate or host sessions. The problem with this as I see it is the level of interest has gone down in time not just in MP sessions, but in MSTS as a whole. New routes are still being devloped, but not as fast and furious as it once was. Due to the lack of support from Microsoft in abandoning the brand, they have also left a program with many different standards. Instead of the actual product being developed and exploded, the add-ons are where the biggest explosion exists. So many great add-ons in fact that incompatibility exists if you haven't downloaded certain add-ons etc.
Where a group like this comes in handy is you start simple and grow from there together. You take one route, and you agree on a fleet that will serve it. As time moves on you add more cars to your fleet, but you do it at a slow enough pace from activity to activity that it's not overwhelming. If issues arrive they are dealt within the community swiftly, with little complication. You also get the reward of knowing that with each new activity you produce, someone else from within will produce an activity(s) that you can run with the rolling stock for the most part you have already downloaded on a route your familiar with.
The example I would use is a great freeware route Full Bucket Line. As far as I know it is a solid, bug free route with plenty of switching, good signal scripts, and variation in runs and length. There has also been a traffic flow already created within the MSTS community that can be used as a basis for creating activities.
Imagination is good to have, but it can only get you so far. There are tools out there that can help you enhance the imagination. I recently downloaded a simple Excel spreadheet that contained random numbers as to what to setout where, and how many. This goes a long way into taking an available yard and using the cars in it to create a switching list. As far as traffic goes a program like TD3 can do you wonders. By this method you can then create the traffic, and hold patterns based on real time schedules already developed. The important thing of all this is no matter what methods you use, the activity creators is the one that tells the story, where the user of the activity reads it. The quicker and easier it is to get the activity to work (the tools help facilitate this), the more activities will be available for you to run, or at least in a quicker turnaround. By the way as for the TD3 thing, I'm going to eventually develop a TD3 version for FBL.
The other thing that helps both in activities, and even for me when I do an MP session is the ability to continue where I left off. In other words lets say I was doing an MP session on M&M. At the end of the session I would simply save the TD3 version of the simulation and the next session would be derived from where I left off. This same technique can apply to activity writing. When you create the activity, set the path, traffic, and everything else you then have a saved activity to work from. The static cars sitting around in yards would then be able to be used in the next activity. You can even go so far as to move what was in the user's (or even AI consists) to where they would be at the end of the activity. From there one activty can be written to break down the train into new trains in a yard. Another activity can be created for each new train etc. etc.
In closing what I'm trying to create is something for everyone. It's boring running the same activities. It's tough downloading an activity and looking at a list to find and install rolling stock you may never use in another activity again. This isn't to say that new rolling stock shouldn't be introduced as I think this is great. It's even greater if you know that once you've downloaded that piece of rolling stock it's going to be potentially used in new activities and the peope running your activities have already got this piece. Signals and traffic are what made MSTS special in my opinion. As a stand alone program without any MP it was wonderful to believe you could start MSTS with a new activity and not be certain what signals you were going to run into, and what trains you were going to see. But this can only be done when you become a user of an activity. Writing an acivity and then using it is like reading your own novel. Not very fun. As much as there have been reported signal bugs, a good signal script, and a good acvitiy can usually avoid both issues. This to me is the only way you can have the freedom of a random like generator, and the addition of traffic and signals on a continuous basis. The random features were not part of MSTS and MS is not coming out with a second version. As much as I love a good MP session, it's difficult to get a good bunch together. When less and less good new routes come along it has it's toll on the MP involvement too.
Sorry for the novel. I hope this hasn't been repeated elsewhere. In any event please respond with your comments on the concept as it's greatly appreciated.
I'd like to say it's good to be back from vacation, but in reality it is not. I spent 15 days traveling across Canada and though at times as exhausting as travelling coach is, and spending 16+ hours a day in a dome car. After a few days recovery, I can't wait to do it again. This trip energised me in why I love railroading, and why I want to do something about it on my PC.
I'd like to suggest a concept to everyone. Forgive me if this has been suggested before perhaps either here, or on the main MSTS board. In the next paragraph I'll try and be brief, and following paragraphs go into detail on what I'd like to try. It is not true multi-player, though it does involve, and require more than 1 person to participate as either a pair or a group for it to succeed.
The concept in a nutshell is MP activities. Where 2 or more people share a list of information involving a chosen route (IE Full Bucket Line), and chosen power and cars as in what power, rolling stock all users will have, and where to get it from. Users would handshake by creating activities for others to utilize. In return once the recipient receives the activity they in turn would write a new activity and the cycle would continue.
Of course because the activity editor is used, this would not be a traditional MP session. This also should not be confused with a virtual railroad (or at least from what I understand it as). A virtual railroad to my understanding has activity writers. But the activities are then used by many people who download them. They accumulate hours etc, and move up in rank etc. What my concept would be can be done in as small a group as 2 people. But can include many more if it is organized into a system of trains that server a purpose.
This is something I wanted to do for some time. The MP community was something that had actually made things interesting enough not to bother to deal with the activity editor, and just get online and participate or host sessions. The problem with this as I see it is the level of interest has gone down in time not just in MP sessions, but in MSTS as a whole. New routes are still being devloped, but not as fast and furious as it once was. Due to the lack of support from Microsoft in abandoning the brand, they have also left a program with many different standards. Instead of the actual product being developed and exploded, the add-ons are where the biggest explosion exists. So many great add-ons in fact that incompatibility exists if you haven't downloaded certain add-ons etc.
Where a group like this comes in handy is you start simple and grow from there together. You take one route, and you agree on a fleet that will serve it. As time moves on you add more cars to your fleet, but you do it at a slow enough pace from activity to activity that it's not overwhelming. If issues arrive they are dealt within the community swiftly, with little complication. You also get the reward of knowing that with each new activity you produce, someone else from within will produce an activity(s) that you can run with the rolling stock for the most part you have already downloaded on a route your familiar with.
The example I would use is a great freeware route Full Bucket Line. As far as I know it is a solid, bug free route with plenty of switching, good signal scripts, and variation in runs and length. There has also been a traffic flow already created within the MSTS community that can be used as a basis for creating activities.
Imagination is good to have, but it can only get you so far. There are tools out there that can help you enhance the imagination. I recently downloaded a simple Excel spreadheet that contained random numbers as to what to setout where, and how many. This goes a long way into taking an available yard and using the cars in it to create a switching list. As far as traffic goes a program like TD3 can do you wonders. By this method you can then create the traffic, and hold patterns based on real time schedules already developed. The important thing of all this is no matter what methods you use, the activity creators is the one that tells the story, where the user of the activity reads it. The quicker and easier it is to get the activity to work (the tools help facilitate this), the more activities will be available for you to run, or at least in a quicker turnaround. By the way as for the TD3 thing, I'm going to eventually develop a TD3 version for FBL.
The other thing that helps both in activities, and even for me when I do an MP session is the ability to continue where I left off. In other words lets say I was doing an MP session on M&M. At the end of the session I would simply save the TD3 version of the simulation and the next session would be derived from where I left off. This same technique can apply to activity writing. When you create the activity, set the path, traffic, and everything else you then have a saved activity to work from. The static cars sitting around in yards would then be able to be used in the next activity. You can even go so far as to move what was in the user's (or even AI consists) to where they would be at the end of the activity. From there one activty can be written to break down the train into new trains in a yard. Another activity can be created for each new train etc. etc.
In closing what I'm trying to create is something for everyone. It's boring running the same activities. It's tough downloading an activity and looking at a list to find and install rolling stock you may never use in another activity again. This isn't to say that new rolling stock shouldn't be introduced as I think this is great. It's even greater if you know that once you've downloaded that piece of rolling stock it's going to be potentially used in new activities and the peope running your activities have already got this piece. Signals and traffic are what made MSTS special in my opinion. As a stand alone program without any MP it was wonderful to believe you could start MSTS with a new activity and not be certain what signals you were going to run into, and what trains you were going to see. But this can only be done when you become a user of an activity. Writing an acivity and then using it is like reading your own novel. Not very fun. As much as there have been reported signal bugs, a good signal script, and a good acvitiy can usually avoid both issues. This to me is the only way you can have the freedom of a random like generator, and the addition of traffic and signals on a continuous basis. The random features were not part of MSTS and MS is not coming out with a second version. As much as I love a good MP session, it's difficult to get a good bunch together. When less and less good new routes come along it has it's toll on the MP involvement too.
Sorry for the novel. I hope this hasn't been repeated elsewhere. In any event please respond with your comments on the concept as it's greatly appreciated.