Swissie
02-03-2007, 03:53 PM
Dear collegues,
me and my betatesters have run into an ugly situation. We've got an engine that works perfectly and as designed under MSTS 1.4. (i.e. non bin), but its - fully default compatible - light settings do crash the sim immediately when the lights are turned on under MSTS bin 1.6.10 or higher.
Here's the narrative: I've been working on a Milwaukee project over the last half year or so, and therefore remained with the MSTS Bin version which was current when I started the project, which was MSTS bin 1.6.092213. The project involves some EF-1 boxcab motors, and the frame-work of the project is to keep all the files compatible with MSTS 1.4., but of course to also offering bin users the benefits of non-conflicting additional features such as bi-directional cabs etc.
Keeping the .eng and .wag files compatible with MSTS 1.4. means using only the default conditions in the lights section.
All works fine under MSTS 1.4. and under MSTS bin 1.6.09. But now beta-testers using later bin versions report that the lights - all set up to work under non-bin conditions, and they do so - do crash the sim under bin 1.6.10 or higher. I also updated from 1.6.09 to 1.7.02 first and the sim promptly crashed. Same with 1.6.10. which according to George is the latest, stable release. I am aware that headlights have repeatedly been an issue in this bin forum, and I hope I haven't missed a post similar to my problem.
The pecularity is as follows:
The EF-Freight motors by Tim W. Muir are set up as two shape files.
1) Frontmost is a shape file of the pilot truck and first driver wheels. This must be defined as a .wag file because due to its shortness it runs far too jerkyly in the sim to contain the .cvf. In as far as the lights are concerned, this .wag file which by default always is the first unit in a consist (Unit (2)) must contain the settings for the cone of light: The cone of light cannot be included in another file, such as the following .eng file which comes second in the consist (Unit (0)), as this would lead to problems with the light cone when double-heading a train, or using mid-train helpers. As the cones of light were Unit (0) as well, the light cone would always come on with the rearmost of the helpers instead of at the point of the consist. This of course due to the fact that when loading a consist, MSTS places the rearmost car onto the starting point of the path, and then adds the rest of the consist from rear to front, using the only available light cone with the first unit fulfilling the conditions set-out for it.
2) All the remaining lights are defined within the .eng file of the main body of the locomotive, to avoid the light
effects of the headlight moving relative to the carbody when going through curves.
The result is the following light arrangement:
First in a consist is pilot truck Milw_EF-1_ExxA-a.wag:
Contains two light entries for the cone of light:
Type ( 1 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 2 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
for dim, and
Type ( 1 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
for bright.
Second in the consist is the main body of the engine Milw_EF-1_ExxA.eng:
Contains all the remaining light entries for the "bulbs":
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 2 )
Unit ( 0 )
)
for dim, and
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 0 )
)
for bright.
This light arrangement, I repeat, works neatly and error-free in MSTS 1.4. and MSTS bin 1.6.09. As soon as I upgrade to a newer bin version, the sim immediately crashes when I press the 'H' key to turn on the lights. If I comment out the light section of the pilot truck's .wag file, the lights can be touched, and the sim works without crashes, but of course with me driving in total darkness.
Sorry for putting it this way, but I am under the impression that this constitutes a major bug in MSTS bin that absolutely needs correction. After all those light settings are compatible with the original MSTS 1.4. and in line with the instructions of the MSTS TechDocs.
Of course it is legitimate to introduce new features with MSTS bin that are not backwards compatible on non-bin installations. But I expect MSTS bin to work with any file designed and proven to work under MSTS default, if not better then at least as reliably as in MSTS default; or in other words I expect that MSTS bin is 100% forwards compatible (does this term exist?) rather than crashing the sim when a file designed for MSTS default is loaded under bin. I would find it hard both from a user's and an author's point of view if any one of us had to painstakingly identify, delete or modify all the files in a MSTS installation that used to run fine in default mode or under the last MSTS bin, but now suddenly crash the sim in a newer version of MSTS bin because some existing, stable program parameters were altered or accidentally corrupted.
Therefore I hope my reporting of the case is worthy of investigation, and I do sincerely hope that George could find a cure to this unexpected but desastrous bug. Especially as the same constellation would probably also create problems for any other consists where a .wag file with lights / light cones preceeds the player .eng, such as a snow plow .wag that has to be pushed by the player engine.
Please excuse my ranting, I got quite a bit frustrated when this unexpected issue raised its ugly head. If access to the beta file of the engine in question was needed on behalf of George or anyone assisting him in further developing MSTS (and generally improving the sim), then please drop me a PM and I'll gladly provide the link (Note: link will expire Feb 6).
Lukas a.k.a Swissie
me and my betatesters have run into an ugly situation. We've got an engine that works perfectly and as designed under MSTS 1.4. (i.e. non bin), but its - fully default compatible - light settings do crash the sim immediately when the lights are turned on under MSTS bin 1.6.10 or higher.
Here's the narrative: I've been working on a Milwaukee project over the last half year or so, and therefore remained with the MSTS Bin version which was current when I started the project, which was MSTS bin 1.6.092213. The project involves some EF-1 boxcab motors, and the frame-work of the project is to keep all the files compatible with MSTS 1.4., but of course to also offering bin users the benefits of non-conflicting additional features such as bi-directional cabs etc.
Keeping the .eng and .wag files compatible with MSTS 1.4. means using only the default conditions in the lights section.
All works fine under MSTS 1.4. and under MSTS bin 1.6.09. But now beta-testers using later bin versions report that the lights - all set up to work under non-bin conditions, and they do so - do crash the sim under bin 1.6.10 or higher. I also updated from 1.6.09 to 1.7.02 first and the sim promptly crashed. Same with 1.6.10. which according to George is the latest, stable release. I am aware that headlights have repeatedly been an issue in this bin forum, and I hope I haven't missed a post similar to my problem.
The pecularity is as follows:
The EF-Freight motors by Tim W. Muir are set up as two shape files.
1) Frontmost is a shape file of the pilot truck and first driver wheels. This must be defined as a .wag file because due to its shortness it runs far too jerkyly in the sim to contain the .cvf. In as far as the lights are concerned, this .wag file which by default always is the first unit in a consist (Unit (2)) must contain the settings for the cone of light: The cone of light cannot be included in another file, such as the following .eng file which comes second in the consist (Unit (0)), as this would lead to problems with the light cone when double-heading a train, or using mid-train helpers. As the cones of light were Unit (0) as well, the light cone would always come on with the rearmost of the helpers instead of at the point of the consist. This of course due to the fact that when loading a consist, MSTS places the rearmost car onto the starting point of the path, and then adds the rest of the consist from rear to front, using the only available light cone with the first unit fulfilling the conditions set-out for it.
2) All the remaining lights are defined within the .eng file of the main body of the locomotive, to avoid the light
effects of the headlight moving relative to the carbody when going through curves.
The result is the following light arrangement:
First in a consist is pilot truck Milw_EF-1_ExxA-a.wag:
Contains two light entries for the cone of light:
Type ( 1 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 2 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
for dim, and
Type ( 1 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 2 )
)
for bright.
Second in the consist is the main body of the engine Milw_EF-1_ExxA.eng:
Contains all the remaining light entries for the "bulbs":
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 2 )
Unit ( 0 )
)
for dim, and
Type ( 0 )
Conditions (
Headlight ( 3 )
Unit ( 0 )
)
for bright.
This light arrangement, I repeat, works neatly and error-free in MSTS 1.4. and MSTS bin 1.6.09. As soon as I upgrade to a newer bin version, the sim immediately crashes when I press the 'H' key to turn on the lights. If I comment out the light section of the pilot truck's .wag file, the lights can be touched, and the sim works without crashes, but of course with me driving in total darkness.
Sorry for putting it this way, but I am under the impression that this constitutes a major bug in MSTS bin that absolutely needs correction. After all those light settings are compatible with the original MSTS 1.4. and in line with the instructions of the MSTS TechDocs.
Of course it is legitimate to introduce new features with MSTS bin that are not backwards compatible on non-bin installations. But I expect MSTS bin to work with any file designed and proven to work under MSTS default, if not better then at least as reliably as in MSTS default; or in other words I expect that MSTS bin is 100% forwards compatible (does this term exist?) rather than crashing the sim when a file designed for MSTS default is loaded under bin. I would find it hard both from a user's and an author's point of view if any one of us had to painstakingly identify, delete or modify all the files in a MSTS installation that used to run fine in default mode or under the last MSTS bin, but now suddenly crash the sim in a newer version of MSTS bin because some existing, stable program parameters were altered or accidentally corrupted.
Therefore I hope my reporting of the case is worthy of investigation, and I do sincerely hope that George could find a cure to this unexpected but desastrous bug. Especially as the same constellation would probably also create problems for any other consists where a .wag file with lights / light cones preceeds the player .eng, such as a snow plow .wag that has to be pushed by the player engine.
Please excuse my ranting, I got quite a bit frustrated when this unexpected issue raised its ugly head. If access to the beta file of the engine in question was needed on behalf of George or anyone assisting him in further developing MSTS (and generally improving the sim), then please drop me a PM and I'll gladly provide the link (Note: link will expire Feb 6).
Lukas a.k.a Swissie