The guys at UKTrainsim and Steam

[JBrownCS]

Looks like the guys at UKTrainsim are starting to see the light about Steam: http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=314&t=95299&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60

I agree with what 'karma99' is saying wholeheartedly. At least somebody gets it. They should have just made Steam an OPTION for the stupid 15 year-olds and left the rest of us alone.

<QUOTE>As secure as I'm sure Valve make Steam, there really is a danger here from whatever sources that an online account can be stolen. Now I work in web development so maybe I have a peculiar view on this, but I'm well aware of how this stuff happens and the also of the groups who dedicate their time to hacking these "holy grails". Not to mention my own PC being compromised... but, if you use virus protection and firewalls you're secure, Pete!
Sorry, dream on! As with locking your car, deadlocking it, having an alarm.. it can still be stolen. You can minimise the risks, but you're never totally secure - if you don't believe this, do some research on the Conflicker worm. If someone had "activated" it the result could have been devestating after the number of systems it infected - some of you reading this right now probably have it anyway. Sounds like media hype and panic-mongering.. yeah I thought that too until our entire network at work got it!
Anyway, I digress! The bottom line is.. accounts/servers get hacked. It's an unavoidable fact of modern IT. It's the same deal as people getting their house burgled. It's infrequent and the chance of it being you is very very small, but it happens none the less.

So here I sit, considering whether I want to risk (however small that risk is) hundreds or more likely thousands of hours of content production on a game that I could be unable to use through no fault of my own if I'm unlucky enough to be in that tiny minority.
And that's my issue with all this. If I was just a "player" I'd probably not worry, much as I'd miss Railworks if something went wrong I'd find other things to do. But to lose the platform on which thousands of hours of time have been spent.. it's got to be a no thanks from me.
If Steam gave me enough of a benefit to outweigh the perceived risk then that's a different set of circumstances to weigh up and a different decision maybe. But Steam does NOTHING for me.
Sorry to all those who swear by it. You can talk about ease of updates, not having to store a DVD somewhere, and all the other things that Steam does so very well.. but I see none of those as a benefit to ME. None of those are enough of a sweetener to outweigh the downside.

The option to run it offline for ever doesn't seem very appealing either, as potentially we'll still need to go online for the updates (and let's be honest, RW is only RS+ right now.. it's the ongoing work that's going to make it something special in future).

The anger that's prevelant at the moment around here is due to the announcement from the railsimulator.com website (whoever was in charge at the time is rather irrelevant) that Steam would not be compulsary. If something that important changes, maybe they'd have been better telling people rather than leaving it for us to discover when reading the small print?
Irrelevant of intent, that kind of things breeds suspicion, and in this case anger as well.

So there it is. I've had my say, and I'm done.
If Steam on the DVD goes bye bye then more wagons will emerge from Swindon, the Q1 I've been secretly beavering away on will roll forth from it's shed, and I'm sure plenty of other requests will reach my minimally skilled ears too :D
If it's too late to change.. or if RSC aren't that fussed, then I guess that's an end to it.
I've REALLY enjoyed creating for RS. It's been a fantastic experience, I've learnt lots and met a ton of really great people on UKTS.
I know I'm not exactly important around here (I'm no Kev Martin, BigVern, Decapod, Geoff, Stephen, M1ckran, G0fthick, Sly and all the other skilled producers whose names I can't recall right now) but you can list me as a casualty of Steam anyway.

I'm just not prepared to go into the future making content for a platform that just might stop working one day completely outside of my control.
It's a risk that doesn't need to exist.

You can now respond happily with "you're a jerk", "stop living in the past", "Steam will never get hacked", "Steam/Valve will never go down", "Thank goodness, your models sucked anyway", and all the other lovely things I'm sure are being thought<QUOTE>

[OTTODAD]

I am sure that however does the accounting at RS.com and watches the trickle of pennies from their share of sales at STEAM and adds up what pre-orders have been received so far and reports that to the CEO then alarm bells will start to ring and unless they change their installation from DVD policy then dooms day will not be far away ! :mad:

I have no further interest in RailWorks unless it can be installed from DVD and used without it's DVD in the drive, the latter of which can be sidestepped easily using a virtual DVD drive like I did with RS before Mark-2.

O t t o

[Bananimal]

Looks like one guy's opinion.

My opinion? I hate Steam. I recently purchased Dawn of War II and installed it on my system. I didn't know that Steam was part of the agreement. I had to get my wife to read the extremely fine print to see if them mentioned it on the box after I installed it. I'm getting old. :-P What do I hate about it as an end user? For starters, I lost my internet connection for 2 days and couldn't surf. What do you do to pass the time when you can surf? Game! Well, not with Dawn of War II. It requires validation through Steam everytime you launch it.

Next are the updates. Look, I have an internet connection and I'll go hunt down my own patches, save them to disk and install them when I feel like it. With Dawn of War II, I sit down ready to play, launch the game, then Steam jumps in my face and tells me that there are updates and they need to be installed. So, I gotta sit there and wait, sometimes 20-40 minutes before I can do anything else with my system. That sucks. I would rather be downloading the patch in the background myself so I can do other tasks on my PC than to be stuck in the game waiting.

My experience with this has caused me to vow never to buy another product that requires Steam. I pad for the product. Leave me alone and let me play it for goodness sake! I suspect that if software companies don't develop a better solution to piracy then PC gaming will be on the out. Legitimate purchasers are sick and tired of the hassle of trying to get software to work. Steam is yet another hassle that I don't need. Much Like my broken install of Windows Live that Dawn of War requires too! Ugh! Consoles are looking better and better to me.

[SuperTux]

I have Dawn of War 2 also and you're not quite right as its worse than RW as I did manage to run it while offline...What is worse?

Windows Live! I could launch the game, Steam didn't care, and I got as far as the game itself, but to play a skirmish game against the CPU it demanded that I go on-line and sign into this Windows live thing. Eh, horrible!

Oh I see you mentioned Windows Live, nasty isn't it? Oh and consoles, I am sure X-Box will head that too, not sure about Playstation.
Matt


Looks like one guy's opinion.

My opinion? I hate Steam. I recently purchased Dawn of War II and installed it on my system. I didn't know that Steam was part of the agreement. What do I hate about it as an end user? For starters, I lost my internet connection for 2 days and couldn't surf. What do you do to pass the time when you can surf? Game! Well, not with Dawn of War II. It requires validation through Steam everytime you launch it.

Next are the updates. Look, I have an internet connection and I'll go hunt down my own patches, save them to disk and install them when I feel like it. With Dawn of War II, I sit down ready to play, launch the game, then Steam jumps in my face and tells me that there are updates and they need to be installed. So, I gotta sit there and wait, sometimes 20-40 minutes before I can do anything else with my system. That sucks. I would rather be downloading the patch in the background myslef than to be stuck in the game waiting.

My experience with this has caused me to vow never to buy another product that requires Steam. I pad for the product. Leave me alone and let me play it for goodness sake! I suspect that if software companies don't develop a better solution to piracy then PC gaming will be on the out. Legitimate purchasers are sick and tired of the hassle of trying to get software to work. Consoles are looking better and better to me.

[Hack]

IMHO, if half as many who complain about Steam, SecuRom, or some other anti-pracy layer were to get involved with strengthening the laws for software piracy (and perhaps if there was more teeth in InterPol), then these programs and services wouldn't be needed. The finger need not be pointed at the developer, program or service itself, however.

[august1929]

Straight up I will say that I am happy with RW as a simulator - multiple reasons, not worth going into here.

I am not happy with it arriving through, or requiring Steam. I don't need to be nannied into ensuring that the platform is kept up to date and I absolutely hate, and I mean HATE, being forced into having RW sit inside the Steam folder.

I currently have 2 instalations of RS - one for Europe, another for the US - and I am totally content with that arrangement, I can update as I want and install as I want. Crucially, I can also have RS on an RS only drive. I like having separate drives for MSTS, RS, Trainz and other things (my way of keeping my computer neat and tidy).

Suddenly, however, I am in a situation where if I install Empire Total War (ETW), which I am getting for my birthday (thank you to my boys), it having to be fired up through Steam, I will have a RW and ETW hard drive, with no option for separating them out. I will not be getting anything else that requires Steam, and I am also seriously considering not installing ETW.

Where is the security for RSDL, or whoever in any of this anyway - RW is already out on the crack sites apparently and those unscrupulous enough to acquire pirate copies are going to be in there already, or will soon find their way there.

Steam is probably ok for those "gamers" who are happy to play the latest game and move on as soon as there is a new kid on the block. MSTS, RS and potentially RW is not like that. Most of those that "play" are in for the long haul, gradually improving on their basic installation, with a basic need to be able to customise that installation to their own needs.

RW through Steam makes that nigh on impossible - unless, that is, someone can show us a way to run it outside of Steam - Please :)

I echo what has been said above. I bought the game (at full price, BTW, as, again, the promo code ended up going through at full price) - it is my game now, not Steams, or RSDLs or whoever. It sits on my hard drive and I should be in a position to decide exactly what I should do with it (apart from simply uninstall it!). I also don't want to be reminded (using it offline) each time I fire it up that I am offline, and do I want to go online - No I blasted well don't - If I did, I would already be online..... :(

If I buy a book, I don't expect the publisher to come round to my house to tell me on what bookshelf to place it, or for me to have to ring him/her up each time I take it off the shelf to read it. If I buy food, I don't expect the supplier to accompany me home to tell me whether or not it should go in the fridge, freezer or in a kitchen cupboard, nor should I then have to ring the supplier up in order to eat it. If I - oh what is the use, the analogies are endless.

Look RSDL, or whoever - it was a bad move to put the game/sim (let us call it a sim as that has different connotations to a game) on Steam. You have, at a stroke ( a master stroke I might add) straight off cut out a large tranche of customers - those without adequate internet access. You have then cut out those who (unlike myself) have had previous experience of Steam, and don't like its "Big Brother" image or what it stands for in terms of customer control. You have then, at a third stroke (another masterly one) potentially alienated those who, like myself, did not, through naivety perhaps, realise exactly what the Steam deal really meant.

As good as RW is, your marketing strategy for a Simulator like RW/RS/MSTS/Trainz is flawed as again you seem to have misread the customer base.

We are not Gamers, we are Simmers, and there is a crucial difference between the two.

In total, utter and almost terminal frustration.

Rod

[MikeSimpson]

Frankly I am fed up with the Steam bashers, I have used it for many programs and not had a bit of problem with it. It is a simple method for RS to distribute their product to a very wide audience, DVD distribution is all well and good for those who live in major metropolitan areas in the handful of countries where RS distributed Rail Simulator, but outside Europe and N.America, Steam is the only way to get hold of such things. (Even Amazon will not send software to countries outside NA and Europe).

As for running RW outside of steam. Yesterday I copied the RailWorks folder to my external eSata hard drive, and it ran from there with no problems. I suspect when it runs it just checks something in the steam folder to ensure it is a legit. copy.

Mike

[OTTODAD]

Steam - I have used it for many programs and not had a bit of problem with it. It is a simple method for RS to distribute their product to a very wide audience.

What is your Internet connection's download speed ?

My BT broadband copper-cable line gives me 60 Kb/Sec off-peak and would take about 23 hours to download RS from STEAM, hoping that during that time not a single data packet got corrupted ! :(

O t t o

[august1929]

Frankly I am fed up with the Steam bashers, I have used it for many programs and not had a bit of problem with it. It is a simple method for RS to distribute their product to a very wide audience, DVD distribution is all well and good for those who live in major metropolitan areas in the handful of countries where RS distributed Rail Simulator, but outside Europe and N.America, Steam is the only way to get hold of such things. (Even Amazon will not send software to countries outside NA and Europe).

As for running RW outside of steam. Yesterday I copied the RailWorks folder to my external eSata hard drive, and it ran from there with no problems. I suspect when it runs it just checks something in the steam folder to ensure it is a legit. copy.

Mike

Mike, I don't know why you are "fed up" with "Steam Bashers" - I am sure the majority of "SBs" are not fed up with Steam proponents - seems to be unecessarily and unduly personalising what is, after all, a individual's like/dislike. I am sure you would not want to stifle my objections to Steam any more than I would wish to stifle your liking for Steam.

Personal likes or dislikes aside, I tried exactly what you did above with the RW folder - all it does is tell me I need to log on to Steam, even when I have already. is there anything else that you did to get it to work.

Rod

[gnash]

is there anything else that you did to get it to work.
Rod


Did you create a new shortcut or try to use the old one ... currently RW is on partion 4 of physical device 3 .. along with 3 other steam games .. do not see the problems you guys seem to have :confused:

[shovelnose]

What is your Internet connection's download speed ?

My BT broadband copper-cable line gives me 60 Kb/Sec off-peak and would take about 23 hours to download RS from STEAM, hoping that during that time not a single data packet got corrupted ! :(

O t t o
Otto,

I'm on a standard BT copper wire landline, with Plusnet broadband, and RW downloaded in less than two hours, starting it after midnight.

Everything worked fine, and RailWorks ran with no problems straight away :).

[sniper297]

Guy goes to K-Mart, buys a pair of Wrangler blue jeans. End of story, he wears his blue jeans whenever and wherever he wants and lives happily ever after. Guy goes to K-Mart, buys a pair of Levi's blue jeans. Levi's requires him to sign a EULA where he agrees to allow himself to be frisked by a cop to make sure he has the receipt every time he wears the pants. This irritates people (can't imagine why :rolleyes: ) and they holler about K-Mart? STEAM is merely the medium, how obnoxious, intrusive, and pervasive the copy protection is up to the publisher, not STEAM. Some games from STEAM have no copyguard activation nonsense, other games get downright ridiculous with it, but STEAM has nothing to do with it either way.

[Bananimal]

I didn't mean to come across bashing anything really. I'm a PC Tech of 20years or so. I know how to manage my system and updates. My sentiments mirror august1929's pretty much. I don't like not having control of what directory my apps are in. That's a big no no for me. I will manage my own data thanks.

PC users, especially simmers, are very well versed in how to deal with software. I don't like being forced to do it a certain way. I can get better results doing it my way. Give us a choice is all I'm saying. If you want to buy it through Steam go ahead. If you'd rather not, then buy the DVD without Steam. I don't mind having to put the DVD in to run my sims. That's much more preferable then having another service that really isn't necessary running in the background eating up resources.

To some people I suppose Steam takes the headaches of managing your apps out of the equation. To others like me that are what you would call Power Users, it's a PITA and pretty much takes control away from me. I don't like that. I never bought Blackshark because of Starforce. I had my problems with that in LOMAC.

I don't hate companies for trying to protect their products or rights. I just wish it didn't have to be such a PITA for legitimate users. I'm not even going to get into the issues I had with MSFS failing to maintain it's activation. All because my system was overclocked. I found it extremely irritating that I shouldn't overclock my PC to run Microsoft's protection software for FSX. They actually told me that I can't over clock my PC. Sorry, I paid for my PC. I'll do what I please with it.

Now they (MS) are going to leverage their Windows Live thing-a-ma-jig. This is part of the reason they killed MSTSX. I don't think I'll be playing. It doesn't even work on my system well enough for me to get access to my MS Professional account. It's becoming a joke really fast. Everyone is trying to protect their software and it breaks everything. And I'm a certified tech. I can only imagine what non-IT people feel. Not ranting. Just saying! I don't need the headaches. Vista x64 is a headache enough on my system.

[gnash]

. I suspect when it runs it just checks something in the steam folder to ensure it is a legit. copy.

Mike

Handled by the service I thought ??

Geoff

[rdamurphy]

Sad thing is, a friend at work gave me a very nice PC for my daughter, who's 10. It came with Windows XP, but they lost the disc, no matter, because it had the sticker on the case, and I have an XP disc, which I slipstreamed SP3 into to save time on reinstalls.

So, wipey Mr. Hard drive, format, install XP using the code that came with the PC, run Windows Update, get a nice black desktop and a friendly star telling me that my version of XP isn't "genuine." Sooos, me, being the reasonable person I am, calls MS on the phone, go through the phone prompts to get things resolved, and - no joy, it worked for about a day. I call M$, talk to a nice young lady, who tells me the problem is fixed, that Windows is licensed to the computer, that the license is good, doesn't matter what copy I used to install it, yada yada yada. Yep. Worked for about a week.

My guess is that somebody, somewhere, copied down the code on the sticker (maybe even the previous owners?) and installed it on another PC. At any rate, it wouldn't work. OK, free PC, came with Windows installed, but license code is no good, only choice, buy new copy of Windows?

I don't think so.

How many times have people posted here in the forums about not being able to install MSTS because of the copy protection on the second disk?

And how about the Sony copy protection that installed a rootkit?

Steam? No thanks.

Robert

[ryangs]

That Sony rootkit thing was terrible. Starforce is a complete disaster. There are horrible forms of copy protection. Steam is not one of them. Have any of you guys bashing it even tried it? I doubt it, because if you had, you would know that you don't have to always be connected to the internet, that you can move the install folder, etc.

[rdamurphy]

Let me take the "bashing Steam" nonsense thing head on. Having legitimate concerns about a piece of software and what it does is not "bashing" in any way, shape, manner, nor form. Saying someone is "bashing" something is simply a way to minimize someone's concerns, and is a form of the Appeal to Ridicule fallacy.

Steam loads on startup, does it not? Therefore, even if I'm NOT going to play with RS during a particular computer session, or my wife is using the computer, and she is definitely NOT going to play RS, then why is Steam loading on startup and stealing my computer's cpu cycles and resources?

This is the same reason you won't find Windows Messenger, ICQ, RealPlayer, nor Quicktime on any computer I own. Period. Install a startup process, you are hereby persona non gratis in my computer world. Give me an option, I'll probably say no, but at least you've told me in advance what you are going to do it. M$ Office and Adobe Acrobat Reader put the startup program in the Start Menu, in the Startup folder. Cool, right out front, easy to right click on and remove.

Google Earth puts a startup item in the registry, called "googleupdate.exe." Take it out, Google puts it right back in there every time you start up Google Earth again. I don't want my cpu cycles and computer resources spent loading stupid "starter" programs, "updating" programs, and yes, spyware that watch my browsing habits and "enhance" my browsing experience.

Yes, Steam may "allow" me to play the game off-line, but the fact remains, it is loading code at Startup, using cpu cycles and memory, slowing down my machine, and requiring my time to deal with digging through the registry to delete the entries so that it doesn't start up every time I turn on the computer. So, is the inconvenience worth it to me? I don't know. I also tend to get a tad ticked off about the silliness of having to insert CD's everytime I want to play a game.

So, what does Steam do for me? Updates my software? OK, I can do that myself. Strike one. Loads on startup? Strike two. Is it part of the game or does it make the game work better? Nope, game works fine without it, you said so yourself. Strike three.

So, am I going to download the game through Steam for $24.95? Nope. Buy the DVD for $30 and install Steam anyway? Nope.

Wait for RW to hit the bargain bins for $9.99 in a month like RS did, then buy it and find out how to extract steam from the game? Probably.

Robert

[gnash]

Steam loads on startup, does it not?

Robert

You have the choice to autostart or not to autostart ;)

:D

[SuperTux]

This will be my last post on anything much to do with Steam (other than technical stuff, I'm sick with the opinions to be honest).

This is the run-down on Steam and RW:

http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?form_news=readreport&form_report=1178

Matt

[Ghosttrain]

Lets not hope that the boxed version installs in the same way and will contact steam for veryfing every time you start RW. I should mean that it must be enough to verify from DVD. If the boxed version will contact steam every time under startup there be at least one megapissed user, Me.

[rdamurphy]

Gnash, SuperTux, thanks much for the good information.

It does seem that some folks are rather steamed about the whole thing! Uh, oh, hope that remark doesn't get me into hot water...

Robert

[gnash]

good information.

It does seem that some folks are rather steamed about the whole thing! Uh, oh, hope that remark doesn't get me into hot water...

Robert

The client also installs a protection service .. On install is set to manual start not autostart as is the case with most software ...... and a little light humour is always good thing.

:)

[boleyd]

It is possible to prevent Steam from loading at startup. I use CCleaner to block the registry entry. It does not use any CPU unless something asks it to do something. But it does use 11mb of memory. I have blocked all Steam, Adobe and Google auto updaters. I use either CCleaner or my firewall to prevent them from starting. It is not that they use resources so much as their probes from "home" could be gathering anything. Some time from now there will be a big story how XYZ company was gathering info and reselling it. Look at the privacy statements many allow info gathered to be transferred to "partners". This "improves your Internet experience".

People who have not had problems probably may actually have problems down the road when a desperate company, short on cash, begins to gather info they did not in the past and sells it to thieves just to raise cash and stay afloat. Desperate time breeds desperate actions.

Anyhow, I keep my process list (task manager) as short as possible. I can glance at it and very quickly see if something has been stuck into my PC.

[OTTODAD]

It is not that they use resources so much as their probes from "home" could be gathering anything. Some time from now there will be a big story how XYZ company was gathering info and reselling it. Look at the privacy statements many allow info gathered to be transferred to "partners". This "improves your Internet experience".

That has already been reported and it is not just some companies doing it, it is their employees also, some having been caught selling credit card details ! :mad:

Reading a recent report on Internet security about some web sites now using on-screen keyboards to defeat keystrokes loggers, hackers can also read what is happening on the monitor. So no matter what one does, they will find a way around whatever is being put into their way, the spread of the constantly changing CONFICKER beginning to worry security experts. :o

O t t o

[august1929]

That Sony rootkit thing was terrible. Starforce is a complete disaster. There are horrible forms of copy protection. Steam is not one of them. Have any of you guys bashing it even tried it? I doubt it, because if you had, you would know that you don't have to always be connected to the internet, that you can move the install folder, etc.

Ryangs, I think if you were to read my post you would see that I am using Steam, but you are totally missing the point - most of us (in fact I think all of us) "bashing" Steam, to use your expression, are very experienced computer and simulator users. To put it in really simple terms - we don't need Steam. Everything that Steam can do, we can do, choosing how and when we do it. In fact, we can probably do more than Steam can and better to our idividual needs.

We do not want to be nannied through updates, we do not want it to load for us when we haven't asked it to, in fact, we do not even want to have to switch it offline to make sure it isn't loading.

Yes, I know how to take it offline, but I do not want it reminding me nearly every time I fire the sim up that I am offline - I know I am, I chose to be.

I have no idea what your experience is with any of the train simulators or any software/games, so I can't comment, but most of us "SBs" have been doing frighteningly complicated things with MSTS for ever, sometimes with Trainz and a few other sims too.

We don't run any of the sims "as is", out of the box, and we have our own reasons for not wanting to.

Enough, however.

Jim Ward has pointed out, quite rightly, that the Steam/Railworks problem is nothing to do with Steam, and indeed my complaint isn't about Steam, per se (read my original post) - it is about RS/RW/RSDL etc.com or whatever taking the decision to use Steam, for the download, then compound it by ensuring that you need a Steam account for the DVDs as well.

Own goal.

Rod

[boleyd]

The renamed company finally realized that the original distribution strategy brought little revenue into the company. $10 at Amazon left little for them after everyone took their cut. It just did not work.

I would guess that they chose Steam, not so much for security, but to improve their income. In addition to an effective distribution channel, they also have security and of coursel market exposure. But the greatest benefit is that they manage the price and have a contractualy scaled slice of the revenue. This was so important that they may well have otherwise had to close their doors.

Philosophically Steam is abhorrent as not only a potential intrusion on our PCs but the added complexity to keep the program current. I see no alternative for a small company to try to self-generate the distribution, updates, marketing and management that Steam offers them. There may be complaints but Rail Simulations cannot afford any other path at this time.

[djt1]

It is possible to prevent Steam from loading at startup.


Yes, all you do is right click the “Steam” icon, then settings and under the “Interface” tab uncheck “Run Steam when Windows starts”.

[djt1]

I would guess that they chose Steam, not so much for security, but to improve their income. In addition to an effective distribution channel, they also have security and of coursel market exposure. But the greatest benefit is that they manage the price and have a contractualy scaled slice of the revenue. This was so important that they may well have otherwise had to close their doors.



Bingo we have a winner!

Just like we’ve seen with MSTS, Train-sim.com/UKTrainsim represents a small number of the overall audience, hardly enough to keep any game development company above water.
Using Steam get’s RailWorks out to a much larger audience and gives the game a lot more exposure than any “train game/sim” forum could ever do.

With the dwindling sales and development of PC games as more and more attention is on the console, they need all the help they can get.

Microsoft’s possible abandonment of PC games is proof of this with its focus on XBOX360.

With “Project Natal” -

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/projectnatal/

http://www.youtube.com/xboxprojectnatal


Gaming on the PC in the future is in serious question.

[jvizoso]

I reckon we're a bit over-engineered with Steam . It's packed with social networking tools.
The Community stuff is aimed at clans.

There are some really useful features of Steam that obviously those who use them will appreciate . However let us not ignore History in this matter , for like RSDL et al in this tale , Steam too has a history of 'healthy discussion'.

But things are better these days .. just be thankful you weren't here before bandwith got invented. The architype Steam scenario is the unfeasable wait when Steam is starting up ... you never know as Lou Reed would put it how long you gonna wait because it could want to update ... and Steam USED to be totally invisible , no notes to the user at all.

So I'm always expecting Steam to suprise me with an update ... whatever .. at least , as railsim buffs we know about how to not go crazy waiting at a red light.

On the upside I can't praise Valve enough , but they are game providers .. they use the good things in Steam to enhance their game , and although we had to wait Seven Years , which brings it up to Ten Years now it's been out Three ..

They use Steam to keep improving the thing at no extra cost .. which is the only reason you should need it , it does preload as well so check it doesn't use autopreload without you wanting it to.

Once you have that account ID that you should never ever tell anyone ... it is suprisingly mobile ... as long as your internets hold out , then your Steam Id is there waiting to re-install your Stuff.

Probably a step back compared to the trusty DVD in the mobility stakes though. Except for the updates .. if you get a lot of nice RW updates through Steam then it works .. if it's just product delivery and then silence , not so good for the downside of having Steam.

Looks better with gaps .. jv

[sniper297]

FLASH news update, from Dear Olde Mother England;

http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?form_news=readreport&form_report=1178

Matt has confirmed that either download or DVD, it's a ONE TIME activation, and if you choose you can disconnect from the internet after activation and tell them to go fly a kite in traffic on a short pier. :cool: How that affects being able to run from a folder of your choosing I dunno, but apparently they did indeed lose that reactivation every three months lunacy.

[OTTODAD]

The renamed company finally realized that the original distribution strategy brought little revenue into the company. $10 at Amazon left little for them after everyone took their cut. It just did not work.

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/rsdl/f4g-ea-rs.jpg (http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk)

and that debacle being known in the industry this was their only option, but this time will get only a cut of what is actually being sold:


I would guess that they chose Steam, not so much for security, but to improve their income. In addition to an effective distribution channel, they also have security and of coursel market exposure. But the greatest benefit is that they manage the price and have a contractually scaled slice of the revenue. This was so important that they may well have otherwise had to close their doors.

As I have suggested to them a long time ago, I would have arranged to distribute a boxed version to all and sundry, cutting out as many as possible middlemen.

How many trainsim modelers or users of computer train simulators know that RW can be purchased from STEAM or from RS.com and other distributors ?

O t t o

[sniper297]

Hmmm, "How many trainsim modelers or users of computer train simulators know that RW can be purchased from STEAM or from RS.com and other distributors ?"

Dunno, advertised on UKtrainsim and the main page here, why don't you check all the European websites and get a ratio of who is and who is not advertising it? Oughtta keep you outta trouble for a while! :D

[Bananimal]

FLASH news update, from Dear Olde Mother England;

http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?form_news=readreport&form_report=1178

Matt has confirmed that either download or DVD, it's a ONE TIME activation, and if you choose you can disconnect from the internet after activation and tell them to go fly a kite in traffic on a short pier. :cool: How that affects being able to run from a folder of your choosing I dunno, but apparently they did indeed lose that reactivation every three months lunacy.

Ok, That's good. That means a choice to some degree. I can live with that. Steam is already installed on my system from Dawn of War II. The only question is "can I install it wherever I want on my system." I hate having to navigate down through x386 Program files/steam/name of game to get to my install folders.

What Valve should do is allow users the ability to place a shorcut in the Steam folder to the program's installation path. That way everyone is happy.

[plainsman]

Will DVDs be available through any North American sources?

[jovet]

Robert,

I agree with most of your gripes there, but they can be solved, too. True, there could be more respect shown towards computer users and their systems, but they can be solved.


Google Earth puts a startup item in the registry, called "googleupdate.exe." Take it out, Google puts it right back in there every time you start up Google Earth again.

Uninstall the GoogleUpdater in the Add/Remove programs.

Google Earth can be installed without the stupid updater thing. You have to dig a bit on Google's site. I actually installed it the other day, and I did a search for installation problems and found a direct download link.

When it comes to RW, I see Steam as more of a way to automatically mass-distribute fixes and less (but still valuable) a way to prevent piracy. Perhaps the post here in this thread about revenue slicing is valid, I don't know. What I do know is that the idea of having Steam on my machine doesn't appeal to me any more than having spyware or a rootkit appeals to me. It isn't software that enhances my computer or the game in any way. And software that treats me as the enemy is no friend of mine.

[OTTODAD]

Will DVDs be available through any North American sources?

Not unless sales of downloaded copies of RW take off in the US.

RS.com's official UK distributor Contact Sales shows a price less UK Sales Tax, which can be applied if delivered outside the European Union, indicating that they will supply it worldwide.

Shipping a larger consignment of boxed versions to the US incurs shipping costs and possible customs charges and local sales tax also.

Comparing the eventual US retail price of the boxed RW with an air-mailed from the UK one should not show much difference.

There is also the problem what would happen if the importer of a large quantity of RS DVDs can not sell them and has to discount them the same way as EA had to do in order to get rid of them and get some of the money back they paid F4G up front ?

O t t o