Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27

Thread: Can't get out of Hobart

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    44

    Default Can't get out of Hobart

    I installed Cajon Pass 4 and the 4.1 update. Tried to run the default eastbound activity to check out the route. Just before my train gets to the switch leaving Hobart Yard, the train breaks a coupler. Tried running with several different consists and break coupler at about the same place. Don't know if there is a problem with the route or the activity, so was wondering if anyone else has had the same or similar problem. Checked the route with Routriter and turned up no problems. This is the freeware route found here at trainsim.com by Patrick Wise and the update by Charlie Sabaja.

  2. #2

    Default

    The easiest way to resolve breaking couplers is to increase the force required for them to fail. EngMod (http://www.trainsim.com/kdl.php?fid=10461) will allow you to write all of the .wag files at once.

    Look for this line in the .wag files: Break ( 1e10n 5e7n )

    The value of yours will likely be different but the parameter and syntax is the same. Change yours to the values I posted.
    Last edited by TrainMan_112; 04-08-2012 at 10:54 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Non - Prototypical Band Aid Fixes.Okay but .......

    If a ROUTE is flawed by having over length TrackNodes (the distance between switches) then you absolutely do need to apply this totally non - prototypical coupler 'strength' Band-Aid 'fix'. I do not know if this route or it's update suffers from the tracknode problem as it is a recent route. The author could clear that up.
    But remember if you want protypical operation, sadly it is NOT a 'fix', only a Band-Aid.

    Increasing the coupler strength to astronomical absolutely non prototypical values of Break ( 1e10n 5e7n ), which btw works out to 2,248,089,432 BILLION! pounds break force and surely will do the job. But it does not really fix the problem.

    Your trains will still jerk and jump at these TrackNodes (switches) and will still possibly derail.
    Plus the fact that in a run-by it looks like crap with all that dancing jerking rolling stock at the problem TrackNodes.

    The proper (and prototypical) way to properly correct the problem is using the Route Editor to insert extra TrackNodes to keep the required <5 mile distance between TrackNodes and 'really' correct the problem.

    Then you can set your coupler break values to the prototypical values,
    This does however require you to be well versed in the Editor, something not for the faint at heart but if a few simple rules are followed it CAN be done.
    Just make sure to backup the route BEFORE attempting this.
    If anyone wants I could detail the process involved and if the tight rules are followed, really prototypal running will be possible on the route.

    Here are the settings for modern FRA Class E Couplers, Break ( 2.2e6N 2.1e6N ) which is 494,579 pounds break force.
    Reference: http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/drawbar.htm

    This is the protypical 'Shock Load' and runs VERY well on routes that have their TrackNode problem corrected.
    It will NOT work if a route suffers from the over length TrackNode flaw.
    Last edited by Vince; 04-08-2012 at 10:32 PM.
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS .........
    ... Eschew Obsfucation .........

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Thanks for the response. Since my MSTS has not had this problem before, I am more inclined to think the problem is with the route. I have read about the node problem in another thread, but since the problem exists within a few car lengths of a switch, could i still be too far away from a node in a yard such as Hobart? If memory serves me correctly, a switch is a node, but I don't remember the distance necessary between nodes and cannot find the thread that I read that information in. I made the same path and ran the same consist on Cajon Pass 3 Main Line with no problem. I also tried to check RE, but for some reason it will not let me into Cajon Pass 4.

    Thanks for the suggestion trainman, but would really do not want to change the values in my SLI engines to solve a route problem. But thanks anyway, I appreciate the response!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Eltham, Australia.
    Posts
    5,918

    Default

    >do not want to change the values in my SLI engines to solve a route problem

    If you want to run the route, you HAVE to change the break values.

    Both break values have to be the same, as the weakest one will always break first.

    1e8N 1e8N works on all the routes that I have run.
    Cheers
    Derek

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Ok, I understand that a coupler may break under extreme load, but on a level, straight track at notch 0 under 15mph, a coupler should not break. Ther break value on the lead loco is Break ( 2.45e7N 1.78e6N ). I have not checked the other locos and rolling stock yet, but it appears that should be enough to keep a train intact under those circumstances. I am open to other suggestions, and appreciate the responses so far! Thanks!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Eltham, Australia.
    Posts
    5,918

    Default

    As you have eluded too, the problem is the known long node issue.
    You have been given the fix.
    Cheers
    Derek

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Thanks for the info Vince! Tried the break values that you gave. Can get past the original point that the couplers were breaking, but now the train seperates going through the switch. I will re-install the route and see if something happened with the first install. Thanks again!

  9. #9

    Default

    Yes there is no way my protypical real world break values will work on a route with over length TrackNodes. The RE MUST be used to correct the problem.
    And Derek is correct. That was a typo on my part. The coupler will bteak at the lowest value. The Break Values I gave should both be 2.2e6N. (494,579 pound force)

    It's not your method of installing the route though, it's the route itself and setting coupler break at the values Derek Morton suggests WILL provide the Band-Aid to allow running the route.

    If there is greater than about 5 miles between switches (TrackNodes) on track with a lot of curves and 8 - 10 miles on straight level track then there will be a problem.
    It doesn't matter where you start on that stretch of rail between TrackNodes as MSTS calculates the player position from the first node BEHIND the player.
    You can prove this by starting an activity on the Default Marias Pass route 'bout 1/2 mile east of the Cutbank East crossovers running westbound WB main. Be in #2 camera view when you get to the switches and watch the dance!

    The difference, ironically is caused by rounding of the low order decimal digits in the explaination put forth by Rob Roeterdink back in 2003.


    Mis-calculation of the player position occurs because of this and when the player gets to the TrackNode AFTER the beginning node, the positional difference causes the busted couplers and in extremis, derailing when the Sim recalulates the position at the TrackNode.

    The only TRUE fix is using the RE to insert additional zero degree TrackNodes actually zero degree turnouts.
    It's a switch that can't be seen in the Sim. I use them extensivly on my current build.


    As to the problem of not being able to get into the Route Editor;

    As anyone who is modding routes MUST get familiar with Route_Riter (RR).
    Run the RR [CHECK ROUTE] test to find out why it won't load. It may be as simple as a missing *.ref file and RR can fix that.

    There any number of reasons are possible but RR will sort it out.
    Enjoy!
    Last edited by Vince; 04-08-2012 at 10:13 PM.
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS .........
    ... Eschew Obsfucation .........

  10. #10

    Default

    Have you installed both it's downloads shown below ? 4-2 after 4-1 ?

    I have just run this activity past mile post 22 and had no problems.

    O t t o







Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •