Troubleshooters R Us, meet me over in the Trainz forum and tell me all your problems

[CWA13000]

Funny thing; I was over at the Auran Forums and looking for some tutorials and I noticed that several people had asked about the MIN industries making them save the route and session and also not being able to find things after and at first it seemed to me that some of the people trying to help didn't know they were talking about MIN industries and they were saying, hey it works for me I don't know what's wrong with you! ( humor )

They were just not as helpfull as the guys here but I may have gleened an answer but I haven't tried it yet.

Does this make sense:

". Did the old "drive now ask questions later trick", LOL, and voila it only asked me to save the Session and not the Route!!! "

I think I've seen an option in the " Session Edit " window that gives the chance to revert to " Driver " and then you get the chance to save just save the session.

Anyway, the reason for this new thread is I was over at Auran to look for a tutorial on setting up AI traffic. I didn't see anything very usefull there.

Can anyone recommend an AI traffic tutorial?

I am especially interested in how to use it in PO&N2a I think I will be concentrating on that for a long time.

I got a session with a bunch of consists and engines and all the non MIN industries activated and I did a save as to clone it and now I want to add some AI to interact with.

Thanks Guys !

Wild Willy the Wacko

[CWA13000]

MINs Are Dead To Me!

I just tried this:


"Does this make sense:

". Did the old "drive now ask questions later trick", LOL, and voila it only asked me to save the Session and not the Route!!! "

I think I've seen an option in the " Session Edit " window that gives the chance to revert to " Driver " and then you get the chance to save just save the session."

and it doesn't work for me. I made some edits in a MIN then clicked on the " Quick Drive " button and I got a box asking me if I wanted to save, after clicking on that I got the same old box that would only let me save " Route and Session ". This is totally unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going to go play with Portals!

Wild Willy the Wacko

[CWA13000]

Same Crap

I went to mess around in the Portal properties box and I get the same problem. When I pretend that I want to save, it only gives me the " Save Route and Session " option!

I guess I will not have AI in my own session any time soon.


Wild Willy the Wacko

[sniper297]

I hate when that happens!

Well, I'm still in the newby phase myself so I dunno what a MIN is, but I'll take a SWAG. First thing, you got Vista or Win 7?

One thing woulda helped, they shoulda made separate route and session editors, this combined thing is too complicated.


I always click "Create Session" or "Edit Session", make sure I never ever ever ever try to tinker with a session by starting with Edit Route.


I think this is one of the gizmos you're talking about, select the scenery objects then the question mark, "Edit Properties".


After that Menu, Save As, it defaults to "Save new route and session" but I click the lower one to save just the session.


Here's a potential source of trouble, if I click the "move object" icon and physically move the portal slightly, that's route editing instead of session editing, that locks me into "Save new route and session" and grays out the option to save just the session, since changes have been made to the route now.


Correct way is to click the question mark, then click on the portal to change its properties - if you add, move, or delete something like a portal that's route editing. Setting a portal to spawn trains takes some tinkering, I would suggest starting with a small route that has only a couple of portals and a few alternate paths, otherwise you get all flummoxed trying to figure out paths and destinations.

One thing I haven't studied yet - if I have a route with a session that depends on certain portals and track markers, and I move rename or delete those without deleting the session that depends on them first, will that lock me into the "Save new route and session"? Dunno, haven't tested it enough to decide.

[CWA13000]

Hi, MIN is Multiple Industry New which is supposed to be good for the game because you can activate a bigger varity of commodities or something like that. There are about 38 of them in PO&N2a and there are about 155 of some other type of industry tracks. The two types have two different property boxes and you just did what I was saying in a previous post:

“Funny thing; I was over at the Auran Forums and looking for some tutorials and I noticed that several people had asked about the MIN industries making them save the route and session and also not being able to find things after and at first it seemed to me that some of the people trying to help didn't know they were talking about MIN industries and they were saying, hey it works for me I don't know what's wrong with you! ( humor )”

I am talking apples and you are talking oranges just like I thought those other guys at Auran were.

In stead of using industry “ ind 08 d “ for your example, which is one of the 155 that I had no trouble at all activating, try some of the other 38 or so that I cannot activate;

Ind 02 b, Ind 02 c, Ind o4 c, Ind 05 a, Ind 07 a, Ind 07 c, Ind 08 c, Ind 08 e, Ind 09 f, Ind 09 h, Ind 12 c, Ind 13 b, Ind 14 c, Ind 14 f, Ind 14 I, Ind 14 l, Ind 15 d, Ind 15 g, Ind 16 b, Ind 16 h, Ind 16 I, Ind 16 k, Ind 16 r, Ind 16 x, Ind 18 c, Ind 19 o, Ind 20 d, Ind 21 b, Ind 22 e, Ind 24 d, Ind 28 a, Ind 30 d, Ind 30 f, Ind 31 c, Ind 33 b, MOW 01 a, MOW 02 a.

That may seem like an exhaustive list for an example but I may have made mistakes in compiling my list, but, I’m sure that in that list you should be able to find a couple that have MIN properties boxes that should look like this:



Click on that to make it bigger and I keep forgetting that when I went back to get that screen shot I forgot to click on the right arrow in the top right corner to change " Route Layer " to " Session Layer " which I have done and that does not help and I swear on a stack of PO&N version CDs that I got to that place by selecting Routes\Sessions\Edit Session.

when I get to the point of saving I get the somewhat same box of choices but save session only is not highlighted and can not be selected. You don't really have to know how to set things up in this properties box, it seems like if one only looks at some options in it, it still thinks you should save route and session. I know because I had to go back through the list and re-do some of the other type industries when I accidently " JUST LOOKED " into one of the MIN boxes and I just Xed out the game and started all over.

Thanks for looking

Wild Willy the Wacko

[CWA13000]

"Here's a potential source of trouble, if I click the "move object" icon and physically move the portal slightly, that's route editing instead of session editing, that locks me into "Save new route and session" and grays out the option to save just the session, since changes have been made to the route now."

I can see that I may have made the mistake of touching a portal before clicking on the question mark, so I'll go and try this again. Or, is it possible that AI is something that one is expected to activate from the beginning of a driving session like when it asks if you want to do DCC or Cab Control, change weather or time of day, in which case you would not be asked to save a change to the original session but later you could save game progress in a session???????

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

[CWA13000]

I still don't know what I'm doing. If I put the lock on " Route Layer " the editor will not even let me open the Portal properties box. Does that not in it's self indicate that configuring a portal has to be saved to the " Route Layer "?????????????????

Maybe I should work on something else while ideas smolder in my brain:



Do I remember correctly that to mount Raildriver, you glued it to a base board? If so, can you recommend a glue that worked for you. I was originally thinking of bolting or pop-riviting to a sheet of aluminum but that would require oppening the case to check for clearances and not poluting it with shavings, that may not be the best idea.

Thanks Snipe

Wild Willy the Wacko

[sniper297]

I just used plain old carpenter's glue, with a big C clamp between the throttle and train brake levers, snugged down tight enough to hold it overnight but not too tight - the plastic is pretty thick but too much pressure might crack it. The other one I made a swivel base for since Mike likes to use his both horizontally and vertically, for that one I did take out the screws, drilled small holes in the base from the inside, and used 3/4 x 8 drywall screws from the inside screwed into a 1x4. After that I reassembled it, no shavings inside.

DISCLAIMER

Both of my raildrivers are nearly 8 years old, doing this to a new one would probably void the warranty.

Back on topic;



I note there's a setting for route layer or session layer in that menu at the upper right, as a test I tried leaving that set for route layer and saving, I still got the option to save only the session. Possibly Phil will have more ideas here, he uses some kind of master portal thingamy which I haven't looked into yet, and I haven't really gotten into the industry stuff.

[CWA13000]

Oh, yeh, it works for you!

Of course you're the Coconut God and I'm just plain nuts! But seriously, folks, I just did a fresh install and added the latest update. So, I have to appologise and beg the question as to why does this work for some and not others? Can there be a hidden option that some people accidently trigger?

I was not thinking that you guys had two Raildrivers. The last picture I saw must have been yours cause I was sure I had seen where you had one that flipped or flopped depending on which cab you were driving. I tried looking back but could not find the pictures of that complicated mount system. I deffinately need to have that flexibility built in some way.


Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

[sniper297]

Hee-hee, like I said I'm a clueless n00b with Trainz too, near as I can tell the trigger is making some kind of change to the route itself that can't be saved in a session alone. For all I know it could be something like Saturn conjunct Mars in Aquarius, I haven't tested it enough to say anything other than changing the track while you're editing a session will definitely trigger it. A list of what exactly you can do WITHOUT triggering it I dunno, only thing I can suggest is take it in small stages with frequent saves, if you get the dreaded "save new route and session" then cancel and hit the Undo button.

As for the Raildriver, I cobbled together something quick and dirty using a hinge and door bolt, lemmee dig thru the photo archives here;


Assorted hardware and lumber;


Used a wood rasp to file out the corner for the hinge;


Fitting the sliding bolt;


Finished project in the horizontal position, lift the end, slide the bolt out, and drop into the vertical position. Pivot point for the hinge is slightly left of center so it's held in the horizontal position with the slide bolt, even if you just pull that out and let it drop with gravity it don't drop too fast.

[sniper297]

Don't be a party pooper Mike, if Wild Willy got structured he wouldn't be any fun!

Hee-hee, seriously Willy, Mike has a point - try smaller bites so you don't choke as often, build a small model railroad style route with a couple of portals and a few industries and play with that for a while. Once you get the basics of what does what down pat you can apply that to the bigger more complicated routes.

[sniper297]

You think you got problems, I gotta BE me and try to figure out me from the inside!

Seriously, thanks mate - that illustrates one of the problems newbies will always run into;



There's the dialogue box for a portal, some of the stuff in that box is untouchable - if I change the portal name;



That's a route alteration rather than a session change. You HAVE to open that box in order to set the portal to spawn AI trains and add them to the portal, but gotta keep your greasy mitts out of the upper section, I guess. Once I change the portal name (probably also affects industry stuff, I know I can't change trackmark names without getting that) the Undo button don't take it back, gotta just exit surveyor and restart without saving anything.

[CWA13000]

Hey Snipe, check this out!

https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?298103-Going-verticle

Wild Willy the Wacko