Surveyor 2 still not available in the standalone?

[SurvivorSean]

Thanks I'll take a look at the those when I get a chance.

Sean

[rgarber]

We must be taking the same meds and thanks for taking a look at my gallery page.

It's so much easier to learn Blender nowadays. I first looked at it and it looked like greek so I stayed with Sketchup. These days it's more knowing whose a good teacher and I think one of the best is Darren Lile. He's got free tutorials and ones you can purchase through Udemy.com Wait for those to go on sale, usually $9.99. This guy is an instructor in real life and he'll take you through things at a very evenly pace. There's another guy whose on Youtube a lot and his name is Josh Gambrell. Him and another fella team up to do video courses and they can be found on GumRoad. These are just two off of the top of my head, there's a bunch of good ones for Blender. For Unity, it narrows to almost no-one. I did find one lady the other day who goes by Digestible and she's pretty good though still if you are a complete beginner she'll lose you too. And Unity isn't hard to learn or use, just so vast that it takes repetition to remember most of it. I'm constantly having to relearn something I already learned.

[SurvivorSean]

That is a very impressive archive you have. I have memory issues with the meds I'm on so I find it difficult to learn new concepts. Repetitive tasks and experience seem to work much better. I've always been good at the data and logic side of things, but no so good with graphics. I tried Blender but had a hard time grasping it. C# is not as simple as say Basic where the verbose language makes more sense to me. Thought I haven't given up just yet.

Regarding those that are creative I know that is a very strong desire with the community to create. I do see the other side and that is those that are independant or small team programmers developing a simulator. I suppose if they opened things up they would probably have just as many sales as trying to focus totally on DLC.

Thanks

Sean

[rgarber]

I think the problem then, and it seems to be there still today, is the people who make our rail games have no idea the lessons learned from MSTS that being there is/was a strong desire to build our own content. The editors have seen little change which is why Surveyor 2 has piqued my interest. I'm hoping with all the experience "learned" since the 'old' days, they can give us a better editor. Philskene is not being very encouraging in his remarks.

For awhile I dabbled in music... again... creating three self-published play-along music books of original compositions/mixes. It was good for awhile but the idea didn't take off hardly so back into graphics. I went learning into learning Blender because I thought "this time" I wanted to get back into graphics and shoot for a much higher level than I was working at. Blender turned out to be a great pick and it doesn't hurt there's only a little cost to it where the add-ons are concerned.

Unity is deceptive because most see it as a game engine but it's also used a ton in the professional market and the paying jobs pay a great deal if you can snag one. I prefer to be an independent and so I'm mostly shooting for the game market.

Take a peek on over at rgarber.artstation.com and there's a gallery of my stuff.

Regarding C#... I used to program in C++ writing software for local businesses before I stumbled into making stuff for MSTS. It was about from 1996 to 2001 I did that. C# is problematic because most of the people who try to teach it aren't very good at it. They're good at C# but at teaching. That to me is what makes learning C# difficult to do IMO.

Rich

[SurvivorSean]

I have Unity and I haven't done much in C#. The big thing I lack is the 3D models. C# is a pain but at least doable (not my favorite langage to program in). Would be nice to team up with some like minded people and try and alternative.

I can't believe it's been 10 years for you. That is about the amount of time I switched over to Run8 from MSTS. Though I have had some runs with Railroads Online and Trainz 2019 (only purchase it for $15). I was developing a route in Trainz2019 but kind of gave up on the sim. My son loves building routes in Trainz2019 however.

Thanks

Sean

[rgarber]

Looks very nice Phil though I'm not sure if what you're showing is the cluster effect of 2022 or Classic Surveyor. I'll tell ya, what's real nice about the effect is the brickwork behind the layout has a nice 3D effect as well as much of the layout itself. Seems to stand out much more 3D-ish than I remember.

But here's my interest in Surveyor 2: painting ground textures we can blend, find objects known or otherwise is place faster and better categorized, controlling your position more accurately. Like, let's get out of the dark ages with these editors and let's use something that reflects over ten years of commercial usage and not a continuation of neglect.

I just think that coming back to train sims in almost ten years of absence I shouldn't even recognize the editor, whichever game. Well, in some respect that does happen but only because it's been ten years and I can't remember how things were done. But they do all look the same as they did ten years ago.

[philskene]

Rich --

I've been fiddling around with the preset Cluster Effects in TRS22. I had to revert back to Classic Surveyor because I just could not master it in Surveyor 2. I also had to modify one of the presets to remove an annoying flower cluster that kept on popping up. This is the result (full screen / 1440p):

Phil

[rgarber]

Thanks Phil for taking the time to explain the difference in Surveyors. I'm going to take your suggestion. Last couple of months I had to shift gears and solely concentrate on learning C# to get better at Unity. I've been getting the itch again to continue on the route I started. But the question of Surveyor 2 or not has been a distraction. So am I also to conclude, to somebody, that without Surveyor 2, TRS22 isn't worth it? Missed the Black Friday sale anyway but it was only $10 off from what I saw... - Rich

[philskene]

Rich --

Not sure if the helps but:

I seem to have been "gifted" TRS22 and TRS22 Plus Beta by N3V, possibly because I'm involved in some route construction for them.
I'm able to update both as the updates and the Service Patches are released and I can download from the Download Station, so they are both fully registered to my name.
But I'm not able to download the newest DLC as it is released, so it can't be the subscription versions of either versions of TRS22.
TRS22 does not include Surveyor 2. TRS22 Plus Beta gives me the choice of using either Surveyor Classic or Surveyor 2.

I struggle with Surveyor 2. What is instinctive and easy to do in Classic is not so in 2.

One of the outstanding features of Classic is that any newcomer to Trainz could very quickly master the basics and start construct routes almost immediately. There is no doubt that Surveyor 2 is more powerful than Classic but if I was new to Trainz and only had Surveyor 2 I'd probably give up route construction.

Phil

[haverfordwest]

I personally would never buy any game from Steam. That is available directly from the developer, Vern.

Don't see why they should get their pound of flesh, for just being an intermediary.

Mike.

[NorthernWarrior]

I see TRS22 got a slight discount in the Steam sale, but still way overpriced. Hopefully this time next year.

[haverfordwest]

I pay my Gold subscription monthly. So i can opt out of it when i want to.

Last time i renewed was Oct 24th. But i believe you have to take the Plus membership on a yearly basis. To take up the deal on keeping TRS22 for ever. If you just want to see what Plus is all about, just do the monthly option.

[rgarber]

I did on the Discord server and they say the same thing. Well, maybe it would be worth it to try Plus but there's no way I would stay on the subscription any longer than the first year. Something to mull over I reckon. Thanks!

[haverfordwest]

I haven't renewed my Gold membership. But reading the info, once your year of Plus is over. TRS22 will revert to standard edition, which at the moment does not include S2. But who is to say, S2 will not become part of TRS22 standard, over the next 12 months. Nearly all features that start off only in the Plus Edition, eventually end up in the standard releases.

But don't quote me on that. You need to ask on the N3V forum really.

[rgarber]

Sorry, sorry, sorry, but I still can't figure this screwy way of doing a train sim out. Right now it says, pay something like $70 and you get the plus membership for a year free. But, what if you don't renew next year, do I lose access to the new Surveyor editor? Cause it be a stand-alone package, I figure. There's no disclosure on what happens to Surveyor that I can find. Anybody know?