Do Not Download RW Patch v97.8a !!!!!!

[OTTODAD]

Did another on-line session using my basic from DVD RW updated with patches and this time it downloaded the v97.8a patch, taking only 3 minutes and not 5 hours like the previous one !

Below is what happened after inserting a new track and switch in it, the F2 SAVE working alright but not exiting the Scenario editor, destroying that test route's Tracks.bin !!!!!

Placing a new player service, F2 - SAVE, exit the Scenario editor and had no RWProc errors then and when exiting RW.

Does anybody at RS.com thoroughly test anything before releasing whatever ?

RS.com please remove this patch from the STEAM web site !!!

O t t o

[inc3pt]

Does anybody at RS.com thoroughly test anything before releasing whatever ?

Bugs happen. You need to calm down a bit, I think. RS has acknowledged and reproduced the error, and are aware how important it is to fix it as soon as possible.

[OTTODAD]

Bugs happen. You need to calm down a bit, I think. RS has acknowledged and reproduced the error, and are aware how important it is to fix it as soon as possible.

Bugs are created by imcompetent programmers and RS.com after 3 tries have not been able to fix this one, destroying the usabiity of routes after working on them, not having been BACKED-UP by many before the updates.

Are you working on routes yourself and do not mind it being ruined by their updates ?

WE WANT IT FIXED, like Yesterday, or our money being refunded !

Got it !

O t t o

[sniper297]

All hands man your Panic Stations

This isn't really a big deal, what exactly does it affect? People hacking routes, if you're a casual player you'll never trigger it, if you're a route developer or even someone who likes to just tinker with routes, it will probably affect you, BUT. Couple people at UKtrainsim are hollering about losing "months and months of work" and having to start over, who edits software of any kind for "months and months" without making backups? Even if the latest update had formatted my hard drive I woulda lost two days work since the most recent CD-R backup is that old, because I made a backup of the route just prior to updating the only thing lost was about 20 minutes tinkering around time before the crash. I was even able to salvage most of that because I know basic computer operations. In my opinion if someone needs a step-by-step on how to backup and restore files he should stop playing with editors until he buys and reads the "Windows for Dummies" book that applies to his operating system.

[OTTODAD]

Yes, Jim, for old hacks like us who have learned much the hard way about computing since the first IBM-PC has been released, all that is not a BIG DEAL !

But many computer users have no clue what they should do with their computers and the software installed on them.

Helped a friend a couple of days ago who has been given a new VISTA computer and once again realized how much ignorance there is, even shown by the 2 neighbors who set it up for her, as well as by SKY-Internet who sent her a letter telling her what her new e-mail address is in UPPER CASE when in fact it should have been lower case.

She is going to senior citizens classes on computer basics next week and have bought her Vista for Seniors from AMAZON-UK.

O t t o

[boleyx]

Empathy would be in order for the non-backed-up customers unless you plan to try for the Supreme Court.

Otto also had a good point as why a broken, and dangerous update to those who do not backup, is still on Steam. I agree WHY?

I do not even know if whatever is on Steam now is the original debacle or a try at a fix. I, like a lot of others, had recently been running online. I was very lucky to see the initial messages about disasters and quickly went offline. I came within minutes of joining the shafted.

Given the simple process needed to uncover the fault Otto's comments about competence, or dedication, are probably in order.

[OTTODAD]

Given the simple process needed to uncover the fault Otto's comments about competence, or dedication, are probably in order.

My commercial Accounting software clients would have nailed me to a cross if I had not tested it to destruction before selling it to them, to make sure that it is flawless and if it had not been would have caused the shut-down of all their branches it was networked on, not being able to process loan contracts and pawn agreements requiring much data and many calculations based on it !

The gaming software industry has got away with flawed products so far, but there are moves in the European Union to put a stop to that !

O t t o

[Capt_Scarlet]

Ok I gotta ask, If you knew that there is currently a problem, why did you download it ?

John

[NorthernWarrior]

Even with the best backup regime it's easy to get distracted or short on time and skip it. The point remains though, regardless of whether you back up every 10 minutes, the core software shouldn't be doing this. Even turning off auto-updates in Steam didn't stop mine downloading and installing the patch. I have now uninstalled the whole thing once and for all, absolutely no intention of putting it back, ever. I only wish there was a way of sending RW back to Contact Sales and getting my money back!

And quite agree, someone from RS.com should be on the phone or email to Steam pulling this patch until the problems are sorted.

[NorthernWarrior]

Ok I gotta ask, If you knew that there is currently a problem, why did you download it ?

John

See note above - Steam downloaded the patch on my laptop even with the auto update feature switched off. Also, on reinstall I don't think you get the option to deny the update as Steam needs to be connected for the online validation and downloads the latest version before prompting to launch for the first time (ISTR).

[sniper297]

I feel your pain

Empathy would be in order for the non-backed-up customers unless you plan to try for the Supreme Court

I do SYMPATHIZE, but to me it seems like a good object lesson, anyone who got caught with their pants down will learn to wear suspenders and won't get caught next time. Honestly, I play a first person perspective fantasy game called Oblivion from Bethesda Softworks (if that's still their name, it's changed a couple times), and it's the fourth in a series;

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/

Not too bad out of the box, altho it needed patching. Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind needed a lot MORE patching, Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall was horribly unstable until it had six month of patches, Elder Scrolls 1: Arena was hopeless even after two years of patching.

I've been loudly critical of the Kuju Kids for eight years now, I holler when I think hollering is called for, "attaboy" when they deserve it, I call 'em as I see 'em without holding grudges for past screwups. And I'm calling this one the way I see it, if you're NOT tinkering with the editors this don't affect you, if you ARE tinkering with the editors then you should be making backups.

[styckx]

Exactly. It would be like a business who solely depends on PC's using Windows XP to run their software. Vista comes out, and they upgrade without testing first, never make backups, and just jump head first into it. We saw it happen, cause there was businesses out there who did. Vista got trounced and the bad reviews of how it isn't compatible, broke stuff, and drove IT guys nuts poured all over the net.

Those who waited initially to see the response from those who decided to jump head first laughed, and carried on with business as usual with their perfectly fine XP setup.

Same thing will happen with Windows 7. You'll have a core group who just jump in while the smart ones protect and backup their investments to see what the overall reaction is from those who didn't before deciding to switch or stay.

[pikehkr]

Having been in the software business where we were resellers of someone else's software, this brings back so many unwanted memories. With a small software company, we are the debuggers and beta testers. If that were not the case, then the last two patches, with a minimum amount of playing of the game would have seen the vehicles generating from every joint and rising on inclines. A minimum amount of editing a route and saving it would have discovered there were issues that corrupt the files.

The unfortunate thing is that software is always "buyer beware" and the software vendors tend to get so wrapped up that they forget they are dealing with everyday people and not computer experts. They start to think they have no responsibility at all and have no liability for any mistakes. Which of course legally they do not. Still, regardless of the legal aspects, there is a right and wrong way to treat your customers.

If RW is going to insist on putting out patches without a more thorough and better structured testing routine, regardless of which snippet of code they replace, then as part of their update process they should backup the data files on the customers computer first, before applying the updates to the core program.

This is always a struggle with updates. Put them out quickly to fix the known issues that everyone is screaming about and possibly create more new ones or put them out slowly and make customers deal with the current set of problems for longer.

This is not a slight to anyone at RS.com but there is a reason why this is a small computer company. I'm afraid that putting out updates like this will only continue to keep it the same scale of operation. I don't say that with any malice either. This is how they want it or they would act differently in some way.

I'm sorry but I disagree with the whole "it's the customer's responsibility" attitude of software developers and the computer industry as a whole. That "no liability clause" has always been and should always be a legal statement, not a moral statement, a philosophical statement, or a design statement.

<Soapbox mode off>

Pike

[OTTODAD]

Ok I gotta ask, If you knew that there is currently a problem, why did you download it ?

Are you reading what I am saying ? Looks like you are somewhat out of touch !

The patch I have test downloaded is the v.97.8a one which is supposed to fix the F2 - SAVE and editing tracks and SAVE RWProc errors crashes, the former caused by the v.97.7a patch.

The v.97.8a patch fixed the F2 - SAVE and EXIT RW after working in the scenario editors RWProc errors but not the new tracks editing SAVE error.

If I had not test installed that patch many would have been unaware that the problem still exists and screwed up the routes they are working on !

Do you actually use the scenario editors yourself and test how it works and what the updates do to them ?

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

I only wish there was a way of sending RW back to Contact Sales and getting my money back!

You live in the UK and the seller of this faulty software is a UK company.

Under the UK SALES OF GOODS act you are entitled to a refund it the product is not working as it should !

Contact Sales have stopped selling the RW DVD in July, saying that they are out of stock and are expecting new stock on or about the 27th of July !

O t t o