RE: why
Yes! Steam Rulez! :7 Good thought Don.
Yes! Steam Rulez! :7 Good thought Don.
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RE: why
There's nothing wrong in using the reverser to slow,or stop a steam engine.
Indeed some engine designs,more powerful than loco's,use the reverser,for very fast reversals indeed,or to stop the engine dead in its tracks.
This is achieved by the conventional reversing link gear,which only moves the eccentric gear,or by a steam valve arrangement that sends either "inside" or "outside" steam to the cylinder valve chests.
"Outside steam" is where the steam is outside of the slide valve or piston valve,before being admitted to the engine,and the exhaust emerges the engine,through a port cut into the slide valve face.
Inside steam flows in the opposite direction,into the engine via the slide valve port,and exhausts via the outside of the slide valve.
This has the same effect as moving conventional valve gear,without any mechanical movement taking place,as a slide valve set to run the engine ahead with outside steam,will run the engine in reverse if inside steam is applied.
Indeed,having driven the engines of the last seagoing paddle steamer(triple expansion),it is possible to stop the engine in no time at all,by quickly moving the reverser astern,and applying full steam to the HP piston at mid stroke.Once stopped,you can keep the engine "locked" by judicious use of throttle and reverser.The same applies to traction engines.
Indeed for all marine engines,steam or diesel,it is a statutary requirement to establish what the minimum stopping distance of a vessel is by doing a "crash" stop from full speed ahead,then reversing the engine to full speed astern.
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RE: why
>There's nothing wrong in using the reverser to slow,or stop
>a steam engine.
>
>Indeed some engine designs,more powerful than loco's,use the
>reverser,for very fast reversals indeed,or to stop the
>engine dead in its tracks.
>
>This is achieved by the conventional reversing link
>gear,which only moves the eccentric gear,or by a steam valve
>arrangement that sends either "inside" or "outside" steam to
>the cylinder valve chests.
>"Outside steam" is where the steam is outside of the slide
>valve or piston valve,before being admitted to the
>engine,and the exhaust emerges the engine,through a port cut
>into the slide valve face.
>Inside steam flows in the opposite direction,into the engine
>via the slide valve port,and exhausts via the outside of the
>slide valve.
>
>This has the same effect as moving conventional valve
>gear,without any mechanical movement taking place,as a slide
>valve set to run the engine ahead with outside steam,will
>run the engine in reverse if inside steam is applied.
>
>Indeed,having driven the engines of the last seagoing paddle
>steamer(triple expansion),it is possible to stop the engine
>in no time at all,by quickly moving the reverser astern,and
>applying full steam to the HP piston at mid stroke.Once
>stopped,you can keep the engine "locked" by judicious use of
>throttle and reverser.The same applies to traction engines.
>
>Indeed for all marine engines,steam or diesel,it is a
>statutary requirement to establish what the minimum stopping
>distance of a vessel is by doing a "crash" stop from full
>speed ahead,then reversing the engine to full speed astern.
This can be done with a ship due to the design of the engine itself, and the forces involved. However I am telling you, it can not be done with a locomotive (Safely)
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RE: why
"This can be done with a ship due to the design of the engine itself, and the forces involved".
Thank you for the above observation,it almost negates my training as a Marine Engineer,and is a vacuous comment.
Locomotive steam engines are designed to give nearly equal power output when running in reverse.(around 80%)
The only mechanical limitation to this is the design of the crosshead slipper that absorbes the reaction forces of the connecting rod.
Some designs had equal bearing surfaces,and in that case would permit equal power output running in reverse.
Steam engines,by their very design,are very amenable to stopping by admitting reverse steam,but it must be admitted that the engineer's skill(or lack of)is paramount in whether the results justify the effort.
The main cause of mechanical damage to a steam engine's running gear is not fast reversals but boiler priming,where incompressible water is introduced into the cylinders,rather than compressible steam.
This again is the responsibility of the engineer concerned.
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RE: why
Up here, the diesel is at the end of the train and is used for the return trip. Such railfan trains usually run on little used spurs in the area and there are no WYE or working turntables on those spurs for turning the steam engine around.
The same goes for the Durand railfan train last month. There was a diesel engine on each end for that same reason and that train ran on the mainline.
The steam engine at Greenfield Village and Huckleberry Railroad runs all summer. They run on a closed loop track usually about one to three miles long.
SRV Ron
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RE: why
Down here in Australia, there is a West Coast Railway revenue passenger train with R711 (Hudson) and a B or a S Class desiel (E8 type locos). it has a control stand in the steam loco to control the desiels.
Wierd when you hear this thing start up - you hear the rev of the 567 B/S class before you hear 711
711 can control the Dynamic brakes too!
Cheers
Mike
[Link Expired]
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RE: why
Steam locos aren't cheap....Right now the A&TC (Austin and Texas Central) is pouring hundred of thousands of dollars to replace a cracked cylinder saddle.
I remember when i saw the Frisco 1522 running thru texas, they had a BNSF unit w/ a crew inside running behind. It seemed like the diesel was doing more of the work.
--BNSF Conductor--Comment
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RE: why
Perhapse larkie, we've misunderstood each other.
After your comment I decided to check up with my folks down at the OHCR. (As well as show a friend this post, which they got a good laugh at)
Anyhow this information applys to a locomotive at least. If you are in forward motion, with a train (if you are light the effects are not the same) with your reverser somewhere in the forward direction, and you were to set into reverse you run a high risk of damageing equipment, do to the fact the drivers are still being forced by the train in a forward dirrection. however if you only go into slightly reversed, you will get a slighty dynamic brake like effect. THey also said at low engine speeds and revolutions that you can put a engine into reverse and not expect damage. (WHich they said they think is why you said what you said) perhapse you could ellaberate for em.
THey told me what exactly whould happen by my understanding of steam is far to simple as of yet to totally understand.
THanks
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RE: why
1522's control stand wouldn't work.. That was the only problem she had! 684 and whatever the one back north was did little of the work, from what I understand.
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RE: why
>go to Phil Krugs WEB site
Not familiar with Phil. Is he Al Krug's brother?
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RE: why
well, why NOT have a diesel? even the 4449 needed diesel helpers for its journey over the cascades, but then that makes sense, there arent any other steamers to help it.
"Item 3:
It was not until around 1940 did any steam engines go long distances. The ususal practice was to run them about 150 to 200 miles, cut them off and replace them with an engine that had been completely serviced. In the 1940, with their oil fired 4-8-4 Santa Fe finally started running steam engines from Chicago to Los Angelos withou an engine change. Today the Big New Santa Fe runs every train between these two point without changing engines, unless they break down."
Hows about we get those Santa Fe Oil-burners in the simulator? just an idea coming from an ever-loving SF fan...
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