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Could I have some advice please re rear DPU engine sounds in "3" rear cam view.

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    Could I have some advice please re rear DPU engine sounds in "3" rear cam view.

    Hi,

    I'm reasonably savvy with editing, say for example, I can edit a route and consist in Editors and Tools OK. I understand sms files to the point that I can alias a sound.

    My problem is (have spent 2 days on it) in many of my MSTS routes in "3" rear cam view.

    If I attach a drivable DPU loco or two at the rear of a train, the engine sound fades away from low sound level at idle to almost silent at 100% throttle. For example, I added a payware engine SD70 UP 5142 from the SLI pack I purchased, to the rear of a consist in CajonPass 4.2. There's hardly any engine volume at 25% and its almost silent at 100% when in "3" rear view cam.

    Put that same loco at the head of a consist and its all volume.


    I was wondering if there is a way of increasing the volume in "3" rear view cam.

    Thanks in advance.

    TRainsimmer458

    #2
    Hi,
    I may be completely wrong here, but when the loco is at the front of the train, it is the Player and uses the Scalability Groups 1, 3 and 5 from the sms file, whereas if it is a helper, doesn't it use the Scalability Group 0 entries, like AI trains do?

    Cheers,
    Ged

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by slipperman View Post
      Hi,
      I may be completely wrong here, but when the loco is at the front of the train, it is the Player and uses the Scalability Groups 1, 3 and 5 from the sms file, whereas if it is a helper, doesn't it use the Scalability Group 0 entries, like AI trains do?

      Cheers,
      Ged
      Thanks for your reply Ged. I changed the Drivable helper to a Trail helper and there is no difference. The sound fades away to almost nothing as the rpm and speed increase. Still mystified

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by slipperman View Post
        Hi,
        I may be completely wrong here, but when the loco is at the front of the train, it is the Player and uses the Scalability Groups 1, 3 and 5 from the sms file, whereas if it is a helper, doesn't it use the Scalability Group 0 entries, like AI trains do?
        In an original, non-MSTSBIN system this would be correct.
        However, one of the benefits of a BIN upgrade (and I cannot see any good reason not to run MSTSBIN) is that all locos in the player train will use higher Scalability Group levels if available in the .sms .

        I wonder whether the locos in the SLI pack have any SG0 entries, and what is in them.

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Armchair_Engo,
          Thanks for that info - I wasn't aware of it! As I run mostly UK routes, running rear helpers doesn't happen very often. Before I get a torrent of disagreement, I know about the Lickey Incline bankers on the Bristol to Birmingham route and I believe they were also regularly used on the Woodhead route.

          Cheers,
          Ged

          Comment


            #6
            Which sound files are you using?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by ragtimer View Post
              Which sound files are you using?
              Thank you to all for the replies so far.

              I'm using the OEM sound files that came in the SLI UP-engines pack add-on I purchased from SLI, using engine UP SD70 5142. I've separately installed both an AI and a Drivable loco's in a banker (helper) consist and the same thing occurs, the engines are clearly audible at idle, and fade away to just a humming fan sound by about 75%. I've re-tested the Drivable loco as a lead unit at front of a consist and sounds are fine up front, make it a helper and the sound is only idle-level volume in "3" rear train view. I've swapped locos at the rear from other loco packs I own and the result is the same - idling engines at the rear.

              BTW, I have a good W7 install with Bin 1.8Xxxxxxxxxx and all the MSTS installation add-ons recommended as per the W7 Complete Install Guide on steam4me.

              I'm thinking the fix may be in sound levels in "3" view, and it may have something to do with the "3" rear view track cam files, perhaps "3" may be configurable, though I can't find where they are or if they are editable.

              I've been scouring the forums here and read this is a problem but can't seem to nail down the "fix". Still Drivable engines just idle in "3" when placed at the rear of a train as helpers (or bankers) as some call them.

              When shoving a 70 car loaded intermodal up Cajon, surely we need to hear 8800hp in the SD70 rear bankers grunting, not idling.

              So I remain perplexed . . . . . . . ?

              Thank you so far..
              Last edited by Guest; 01-18-2014, 05:40 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                I don't know much about W7, I am still using Windows XP. I know if I you use to much hardware acceleration all kinds of crazy things can happen to the way sounds are played in MSTS.

                Ron

                Comment


                  #9
                  Helper locos use the SL0 section of the eng sms file.I doubt your SLI sounds have this.We have discussed this many times on these forums.I use Anthony Wood's EMD 710 sounds for e.g SD70s.You also need to have the "tweaked" soundcfg file (probably comes with BIN).If you download the sounds and PM me with your email I will send you sms files that work.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ragtimer View Post
                    Helper locos use the SL0 section of the eng sms file.
                    Driveable helper locos in the player consist should not be using SG0 in a BIN environment.
                    Certainly the updated soundcfg.dat file should be implemented for best results, along with the mem switch in the train.exe command line to make more memory available to MSTS.
                    A consist of 70 wagons could be a strain on the sound system if those wagons are using numerous streams each, particularly if the sound processing chip is a typical on-main-board type, and if running the consist in a highly detailed route.


                    trainsimmer458
                    : try making a similar consist with only 10 wagons a see if the rear (driveable) helper is heard to rev up and down with the lead loco/s. Also try running in a sparse area of a route to see if it makes a difference.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you ragtimer and armchair Engo and others for your advice and offers of assistance. You are correct, this has been discussed many times but I have not found a fix.

                      I have spent another day on this and I appear to have got it. I did the following:

                      (1) Uninstalled BIN 1.8xxxxxxxx and all the files properly. Re-started the PC and then re-installed BIN 1.8xxxxx. This appeared to make no difference. Perhaps it fixed the soundcfg file that is often replaced with a new route or rolling stock install.

                      (2) Then I toyed around with a few existing consists but with changed helpers. Bingo!. I have come to the conclusion that: If the helper uses the same type of eng.sms as does the lead loco up front, for example, if they both use EMD645E3_ext.sms, then the helper will only idle. This occurs even if the same-named engine file is extracted by the relative loco .sms files from two different SOUND folders in TRAINSET because:

                      In a 4-unit lead lashup with an SLI SD70#5142 helper, the helper had no sound. I removed two SLI SD70 engines in the lead 4-unit lashup and ran only with the 2 x drivable AC6000CW's which use the FLD16, and the SLISD70#5142 helper sprang into full noise through the range of notches. Music to my ears.

                      To back-prove it, I re-added the SD70's to the lead 4-unit lashup, removed the (silent) SLI SD70#5142 helper and replaced it with SLI C44AC#6480. Again, the helper sprang into action chomping at the bit with full range of loud engine noise.

                      So it seems that there is some type of conflict with the sourse XXXeng.sms files. All my rolling stock and locos are full retail purchased packs and routes so they all installed and run without any problem. The SLI UP engines are in TRAINSET\\ SLI_UP_ENGINES and SLI_UNION_PACIFIC. Some alias to the same XXXeng.sms files and some have their own SOUND folders.

                      So, I have overcome the problem by elimination. My summary is simple, if a helper has no sound, change the helper to a loco with a different type of XXXeng.sms, i.e, use a GE on the rear of an EMD lash-up and vice-versa.

                      Weather the BIN reinstall helped, I don't know. But I have back-proven the details in (2) on any number of lashups/helpers.

                      I'm would like to hear any opinions from our learned friends here, what do you think about my result??

                      Its possible I've half-pie got it fixed, but I've gone through some SLI and MLT and 3DTS consists and the results are the same as in (2), just switch the helper to an eng.sms that is not used up in the lead lash-up.

                      Cheers

                      trainsimmer458

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That is not the solution.You can have the same type of loco as helper as the lead loco.Why did you risk uninstalling and reinstalling BIN?Any radical "solution" like that is fraught with danger.In the sim I can have any type of loco as Head end and any type as helper,all sounds work as they should.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well, it may not be the solution as you say. I re-installed BIN because many of the OEM routes and loco packs I purchased over-wrote the soundcfg files and the camcfg files, ttrack and many other important files. So I read on the forums that re-installing BIN can reset the files.
                          So I did that.

                          (I make a back-up of everything before I change it, and have all my back-ups right back to the original clean install with only the original MSTS and 1.4 update.)

                          It was the only solution I could find and why what I did worked, I have no idea, all I know is that it worked. All my SLI files have SG0 so how one goes about adding SG0 1, 3 or 5??. After 2 and half days of searching the forums, I was unable to find the fix.

                          Every things seems to work fine with the re-install on BIN.

                          What is the cure then, may I ask.

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by trainsimmer458 View Post
                            I'm would like to hear any opinions from our learned friends here, what do you think about my result??
                            You have done extraordinarily well to narrow it down as you have. This is not an fault that I can recall anyone else having.
                            Unfortunately I cannot reproduce that problem on my systems. This leads me to suspect that you have some quirky combination of hardware and drivers.

                            Perhaps there are updated sound drivers for your motherboard or addon sound card that you could try, as long as you are confident in being able to back out the change if necessary. In this funny old world of PC's you might end up trading one problem for another different one.

                            BTW, what routes do you have that make changes to MSTS Global files?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              As a side note -
                              I always "unpack" every freeware and payware item into a non-msts directory. This way, nothing is ever touched or added into the working msts directory, until I manually add the parts in that I want.

                              This practice will ease your feeling of soundcfg.dat files, etc., from ever being overwritten.
                              Neil

                              Chicago Railroading Fan

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