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    OK, this may be way off the base but here goes. I think it's not centered entirely around the Membership Site. For some it most surely is. I gave up On DW before the Members section was created so I don't feel I'm missing out on anything. If I've come across sounding like I am, not the case.The main issue as I see it is lack of communication on Scotts part. A good case for this is the Membership site. I don't think Scott has ever detailed, particularly in the beginning, what the criteria was in order to become a member...... In fact as I recall not much was even said when it started. Word went out Scott would send you a invite if he felt you worthy (not the best word I came up with) of becoming a member. Then that changed to you had to email him requesting to become a member. Then word was one had to buy all 4 SP packs or you had to spend a certain amount of money to join. But really no word from Scott what the REAL deal was. For a better word, all here say. That was were some issues arose. People never heard back for weeks even months from Scott on if they were members or not. And apparently they were not because those individual still could not access the members site. That I think is the main beef about the members site. Then overall, as I said in a earlier post, starting as best I can tell sometime in 2015, Scott changed his business model which he has every right to do, but the manner in which he has changed it has to be questioned. The site started to become very hard to order stuff from ranging from CC or Paypal problems, outright refunds with no reason as to why, and a serious lack of Scott not responding to emails asking what the issue(s) are/were. Thus the complaint from many that customer service went out the window. Some got responses from him saying they were pirates in his eyes without providing proof even when said accused asked him why he thought that. Some may have other issues, but I think for most of us, it is overall poor customer service and most recently, this attitude of him calling people pirates without any real reason or proof that has many in a sour mood. Not many comments about knocking his work, quite the opposite, even those of us who no longer buy from DW have not outright called him out regarding his wonderful models. Yes, Scott can run his business as he sees fit. Yes, he his the right to not to sell to you and ban you. Yes his models have been pirated and he has every right to put a stop to that in any way he see fit. I don't think many of us would really disagree with that. Problems are created due to a lack of communication and solved for the better with good communication. Poor communication on Scott's part should be central issue here. If Scott wishes to keep the problem where it's at, Fine. His choice and yeah, as some have said, maybe we should quit crying about the whole thing. But in this case, that's hard for someone to do. A good part of the Human race tends to speak out when they strongly feel the have been wronged or accused if something they know deep in their heart they are not guilty of.


      Originally posted by lateagain View Post

      Now that sounds like paranoia to me. What on Earth makes you believe that there's a secret club all sharing freeware and deliberately sharing it within a select clique of friends?

      Come on Geoff, this is the worst side of true-believerism that a few of you still carry around. Of course invitation-only private forums where repaints are shared to this day do exist. They have existed for years. A very popular one had well over 50 members. For many users, this site is no longer the center of the earth.


        Originally posted by PXSE View Post
        Come on Geoff, this is the worst side of true-believerism that a few of you still carry around. Of course invitation-only private forums where repaints are shared to this day do exist. They have existed for years. A very popular one had well over 50 members. For many users, this site is no longer the center of the earth.
        Well that's news to me. Only stuff I've shared or received has been in the line of testing repaints, routes etc. That being to test before release. If folk want to share stuff privately that's fine as long as they don't breech any EULA. Rather sad though because one assumes they're downloading this stuff rather than creating it? In any case the comment is aimed, like the Piracy comment at ALL and sundry. So again we have unfounded accusations? At best inaccurately targeted accusation?
        Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.


          Well, a lot of his stuff is on a public website where anyone can download it, so if people have his stuff, and post pictures of it, and didn't purchase it, well then I figure he can't really do anything about it and ban the people that do have it from that site, and the people that wanna purchase the newer stuff from his site I figure why not allow anyone come and join it?? I don't see any harm in having others join his site, its a way to do some good business thru him with some good stuff that he does


            I can say I know individuals who know other individuals that are a part of these secret sites they definitely have been around for a longtime it's all about who you know.As far as Scott he has always been good to me cant say anything bad about him he just doesn't take any bullshit. I will say that all this stuff you guys keep pissing and moaning about ain't gonna do nothin but probably piss him off more i dont know you guys so I will just wish you the best of luck with this thread cya.


              So if you're not part of the club and excluded from the latest and greatest then perhaps it's not surprising that piracy occurs. You can't trust this stuff to everyone, it's all over the place. The genie is out of the bottle. So it seems he's content to step over a dollar to save a dime.
              Only you can stop Fred Flintstone wheels


                Well we're no nearer Helping wcl with his original post requesting help.

                It would seem that a certain % of the members "get" the problem and see the offence Scott has caused some of his legitimate customers? .....whilst others have taken an "I'm all right Jack" stance OR many are obviously quite happy to download the Pirated stuff

                Until Scott learns to communicate the thread is YET AGAIN achieving nothing other than split the community. Seems like a repeat of the UKTS debacle all those years ago? (my post #36 in this thread) If you didn't read that see how THAT ended.

                Originally posted by dpabrams View Post
                So if you're not part of the club and excluded from the latest and greatest then perhaps it's not surprising that piracy occurs. You can't trust this stuff to everyone, it's all over the place. The genie is out of the bottle. So it seems he's content to step over a dollar to save a dime.
       at least this gives me a smile ...not heard that one before. The Brit equivalent is "Penny wise, pound foolish"

                I'm out of here and going to look up the thread by a guy building some new U-boats.......
                Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.


                  Let's just say, if your not his mother, father, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, Grandma, Grandpa, cousin, or anyone else, you won't be getting into his so called little club.


                    Man all these insults some of yall are doing ain't going to get yall anywhere faster.


                      Originally posted by geekman View Post
                      I’m pretty sure that this post is going to pi$$ off a lot of you. In fact, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Dave removed it, but I been quiet up to now and it’s time I spoke up.

                      Yes, I am one of what you refer to as Scott’s “Elite Club”. He and I have communicated over the years and I consider him not only to be an on-line friend, but also an honest and dedicated business man. I have never tried to take advantage of him and he has never been anything but straight forward and honest with me.

                      What all of you seem to forget here is that Scott owns DieselsWest. It’s his company and he can do whatever he damn well wants to, for whatever reasons he has. And all this “Scott Bashing” you are doing isn’t going to get him to change his business practices. Yes, he does visit here, and yes, he is fully aware of your opinions and frustration. But all your bitching and complaining isn’t going to change his mind.

                      You see, and maybe you really don’t, is that a large number of you who are moaning are doing exactly the very same thing you are accusing him of. There’s a ton of new content out there, repaints and new equipment. I know – I see it regularly in the photos sections. Yet almost none of it ever shows up in the library. Why? Well, you keep it to yourself, or just share it with your close group of friends. Why is that: You don’t like pirates.

                      So let me clue you into something: Scott doesn’t like pirates either, so he, like you, only shares his creations with his close group of friends. Now, how do you like being on the receiving end? Now you know how I feel when I see all this new stuff that you won’t upload because you don’t like people ripping you off. Sound familiar?

                      I’m tired of you pi$$ing and moaning about Scott not sharing. To me, all it says is that you are a bunch of hypocrites. You don’t share but yet your mad because he doesn’t either. Well, I got news for you – he does share – to people he knows he can trust. And if the shoe fits – well……
                      Here, here, Larry! Very well put. I couldn't agree more!

                      Everyone here knows, whether they admit to it or not, that there are various cliques on here that privately share repaints, new or modified/upgraded models, etc., then post them in the screenshot thread. Then people ask "hey where did you get that?" it's "oh, its a private repaint, or so and so sent it to me, not going to share, etc" and nonsense like that. That in and of itself is fine, but don't bellyache when others engage in it, or others still are among the beneficiaries.

                      Am I in Scott's "elite" club? Yes, and happy to be, and I will brag about it 'till the cows come home, since this is apparently *STILL* a hot topic for some. I've purchased just about everything Scott has released since 2012, inclusive of some of his older stuff. He makes some of the best models out there, so I supported his business by purchasing his stuff. He has always treated me fairly, we have communicated from time to time on various railroad related things, and he has always communicated promptly with me. I have been a loyal customer, and have always been treated accordingly.

                      At the end of the day, Geoff, you say the following: Lets be clear about Diesels West contribution to the hobby.
                      1) They never released a route.
                      2) In the history of US motive power they cover a fairly short "era" or time span.
                      3) They cover a limited number of manufacturers locomotives
                      4) Even before their current stance they offered some excellent "bonuses" BUT only after you'd purchased around $100 worth of packs and often then they all had to be for one road. (I'm reading from the site I CAN SEE don't tell me that's not true "in the club)

             well as this: My personal area of interest is the Transition/dieselisation era.

                      For someone who's era of interest doesn't quite square with Scott's motive power offerings, you're awfully vocal in your complaints about how Scott is handling his business.

                      As to your specific gripes:
                      1.) Neither has BLW, so what of it? I don't think less of them or their product because they haven't released a route.
                      2.) The era of motive power Scott offers doesn't quite square with your interests, so what's it to you that you're not in the "club"?
                      3.) SLI only offers GE and EMD models as well, so what's your point? Even then, the vast majority of "new releases" tend to be repaints of older models offered with new or different freight cars. Scott at least offers a couple of well done ALCO models - the PC and CNW C628s come to mind and he tends not to rehash the same models over and over again. How many sets has SLI/TS released that have a SD70ACe or ES44? Quite a few.
                      4.) Actually the special additions are included with the purchase now, or readily available on other sections of the members portal. No spending requirement, other than having purchased the pack with which the special additions are associated.

                      So all of you who are bellyaching, rest assured it will likely get you nowhere. Y'all have been griping about Scott for many years "he doesn't run sales" "I'm not in his club" and so on. At the end of the day guys, it's Scott's business to run as he sees fit. I hope he does lurk on here (which, IIRC, he mentioned to me that he does) to see what I consider to be nothing more than jealously manifesting itself among those not "in the club." Personally, I would derive a degree of satisfaction from it. Can't speak for Scott.


                        Speaking of being "in the club," I think I will go ahead and purchase the UP C30-7s and upgraded SD50...since I already have the C36-7 which is an excellent model, BTW....


                          I had the opportunity to actually get an email back from whoever was running the emails for him...And this is what I got back:

                          Good morning, I was wondering where could one obtain this code to purchase stuff off your website?? I have been seeing all sorts of new stuff from other people, but your new stuff is not on the regular DW website....
                          Thank You

                          here ya go jeffie..just copy the code into window and start making purchases
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                          So is their a reason why I can't get a registration code for making purchases?

                          Your problem is you don't exist in our database, going back to 2003. I'm sure you have history on the trainsim forum, but that user info is either false or unverifiable.

                          I have no clue on what you are talking about. 15 years ago?? Why would it matter if one was able to buy stuff from that site now anyway?? I don't understand what the issue is here??

                          The members at the 24/7 site are there because they have purchased many things, for many years. DW 24/7 is a repository of downloads which accompany those products.

                          There is NO advertising anywhere for DW 24/7. It is not a commercial enterprise on the internet.

                          If you are looking for something specific, there are more than enough freeware developers on trainsim capable of creating it for you. It may even be in the download library.

                          So your saying that people that are not in your "so many years club" that some new people can't even be allowed to your site? That makes no sense as what if you get a young generation of a member, and wants to become a member, he or she can't cause they were not palying the sim long enough??

                          I for one has ran that sim since it ever came out, and I pretty much have a good chunk of your content, so I don't see where I go wrong on being allowed to access your page and purchase some of your newer work.

                          In my opinion, DWs work is by far the best out there and why I continue to be able to be allowed on that site and purchase more stuff to add to the collection.

                          And that was all I got back


                            That whole post is just bizarre wcl..... DW24/7??? First time I recall anyone has even mentioned it in all the posts about DW spanning 2-3 years on this forum or the 2 others I look at..... Anyone else ever heard of got a email from DW about DW24/7??

                            The database thing seems strange as well. I think you touched on that wcl. If I'm understanding this correctly from what I just read, if one is a new customer, new to the sim community, we are lead to believe one can't buy anything from DW?? I really wonder about that one..... Has this been the case since 2003? That was long before I was even fooling around with MSTS which was 2010. I had no issues ordering from DW at the time and I had not been a member on here very long as well if DW is using that as part of verification.

                            If DW24/7 is indeed based on having a long, extensive purchase history, safe to say many of us, weather we are having issues with DW/Scott or not, should have no problems accessing the members site or ordering from the regular site which clearly is not the case for many of us.

                            Now, and not pointing fingers here, the fact you're not in their database and as you claim, you have made many purchases over the years is puzzling. Something like that would make Scott suspicious. But we don't know the entire story from both your side as well as Scotts side so for me AND the rest of us, there should not be any harsh judgment on this either way.


                              Originally posted by kknobl View Post
                              Speaking of being "in the club," I think I will go ahead and purchase the UP C30-7s and upgraded SD50...since I already have the C36-7 which is an excellent model, BTW....
                              Fair if you like what he has, but gloating to the people outside of the personality cult just makes you a jerk. Consider yourself on my ignore list.


                                Originally posted by Erick_Cantu View Post
                                Fair if you like what he has, but gloating to the people outside of the personality cult just makes you a jerk. Consider yourself on my ignore list.