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TS-SLI Correct InertiaTensor Box Numbers For The SD70MAC

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    TS-SLI Correct InertiaTensor Box Numbers For The SD70MAC

    SLI( Now TS ) has Both The Size & InertiaTensor ( Box ( 3.594m 4.431m 22.4m ) ). However, there's some lag. Well, recently someone added some change with Their Repaint, but I'm not really sure if it was enough: Size ( 3.594m 4.431m 21.9m ), InertiaTensor ( Box ( 3.594m 4.431m 21.8m ). What would be The Correct Numbers to get a Good Coupling( or is that it )?

    #2
    Originally posted by marklester01 View Post
    However, there's some lag
    Could you explain that further?

    Comment


      #3
      Actually,..re-looking it up looks better. The Newer Re-Paints took that effect away( just seems a bit much in is all, but can live with it ). Just needing some better numbers maybe?
      Last edited by marklester01; 03-22-2024, 03:41 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        If the issue was coupling to other cars, I suggest using Bound Box Editor, File ID 6107. It will show incorrect numbers that need to be fixed. I have found plenty of models needing fixes, ( freeware and payware ) including my own designs. It shows sizes of Bounding Box, model Size, and InertiaTensor. It will indicate which are in error, in Red, and thus need to be fixed using the editor.
        Also if you see an open space, between cars in a consist, it could be a bad bounding box ( to big ) with one of the cars that is causing that.
        Owner and CEO of Hart Rail Lines & Hart Commuter Railways, and Hart Rail Cars.
        It's my Train Sim world so I run HART RL anywhere I want.

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Folks,

          I was under the impression that ORTS doesn't use bounding boxes or inertia tensor - the length is controlled by the [Size] value and coupler slack is controlled by the [r0] value.

          Also - ORTS only uses a single coupler value - so you can't have different values for each end. [*** See Next Post ***]

          My typical couplers are setup like this.

          Code:
          Comment ( ##### COUPLERS ##### )    
          Coupling (
                  Spring (
                      Stiffness ( 1e4N/m 4.5e6N/m )
                      Break ( 1200kN 1200kN )
                      r0 ( 5cm 5cm )
                  )
                  CouplingHasRigidConnection ( 1 )
              )​
          Regards,
          Scott
          Last edited by scottb613; 03-22-2024, 09:05 AM.
          <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

          Comment


            #6
            It's true that Open Rails doesn't use InertiaTensor, but it is not true that you can't have different couplers at each end. Open Rails will keep track of the front coupler vs the rear coupler (assuming the first coupler entered in is on the rear, and assuming both couplers are the same if only one coupling was entered).

            The thing it doesn't do is simulate different couplers connected to eachother, it's always calculated as if two identical couplers are connecting every train car. It's the coupler at the back end of the car that 'actually' gets simulated, ignoring the settings of the next car's coupler, but if the train car is flipped than the 'back end' coupler is actually the front one. In that situation, it helps to define two couplings to make sure you get the intended behavior both flipped and not flipped.
            ​​​
            ​Contributing to ORTS on GitHub as SteelFill

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks Phillip.

              I've brought up the single coupler issue a number of times over the years - after some comprehensive testing on my part - this is the first definitive answer I've seen. I'll have to revisit.


              Let me add the only reasons you need SD files is if you are using [Alternative Textures] or setting the speed of a [Bell Animation] - ORTS will run fine without them.

              Regards,
              Scott
              <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

              Comment


                #8
                Yes, I don't run/use. SD Files anymore. As stated, The Newer ( MACe ), Repaints both have The Size & InertiaTensor ( Box ( 3.594m 4.431m 21.8m ) ) redone( one number re-done ), but not quite enough. Both are under "Older" Settings( I guess from what's been brought up ). I'll Test Scott's Method( for I've heard no InertiaTensor's no longer needed anymore before & one coupler Line ). Both Cars & Locomotive's Coupling Sections are from Open-Rails, but never hurts to Test to get better ). Thanks for The Help so far. I'm going to try the Testing once I get back to My Laptop Later( Viewing & Typing via My Phone ATM )
                Last edited by marklester01; 03-22-2024, 10:16 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  try 5.8e7n for the break i try it my coupler never broke on msts and openrails

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks, but that's not The Style I use anymore. When I did, It was 5.4e7n( that was pretty much The Going Standard, but you're right, it was HARD to get Un-Coupled ). This has to do with Sim. Engine/Locomotive Size to InertiaTensor, but like alot of ORTS Cars, might not even need It. Oh, there was one more 5.3 & 1e.7n that did the trick( I think ) & wasn't as "Thick" so Un-Coupling was easier.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by scottb613 View Post
                      I was under the impression that ORTS doesn't use bounding boxes or inertia tensor - the length is controlled by the [Size] value and coupler slack is controlled by the [r0] value.
                      Scott, all I know was that I had a consist with a sizable gap between the caboose and the car in front of it. After checking the consist for a missing car or an odd-ball, I found that the last car before the caboose was the same, a repeat, of the proceeding cars. Checking the caboose in BBE I found the Bounding Box was off, resized it and the consist then ran correctly. Found a similar problem with one of my own models not showing in consists or as static until I fixed the Bounding Box.
                      Owner and CEO of Hart Rail Lines & Hart Commuter Railways, and Hart Rail Cars.
                      It's my Train Sim world so I run HART RL anywhere I want.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by pschlik View Post
                        The thing it doesn't do is simulate different couplers connected to eachother, it's always calculated as if two identical couplers are connecting every train car. It's the coupler at the back end of the car that 'actually' gets simulated, ignoring the settings of the next car's coupler, but if the train car is flipped than the 'back end' coupler is actually the front one. In that situation, it helps to define two couplings to make sure you get the intended behavior both flipped and not flipped.
                        That's probably the clearest information I've read about the coupler code...thank you for the clarification.

                        Here's my current OR coupler setup for diesels.
                        Code:
                        Comment ( Open Rails Standard Couplers for Diesel Locomotives )
                        
                        Coupling (
                        Type ( Automatic )
                        Spring (
                        ORTSTensionStiffness ( 225kN 2275kN )
                        ORTSTensionR0 ( 0in 1.0in )
                        ORTSTensionSlack ( 2.75in 0.4in )
                        ORTSCompressionStiffness ( 225kN 2275kN )
                        ORTSCompressionR0 ( 0in 1.0in )
                        ORTSCompressionSlack ( 2.75in 0.4in )
                        ORTSBreak ( 1800kN 2275kN )
                        )
                        CouplingHasRigidConnection ( 0 )
                        )
                        Coupling (
                        Type ( Automatic )
                        Spring (
                        ORTSTensionStiffness ( 225kN 2275kN )
                        ORTSTensionR0 ( 0in 1.0in )
                        ORTSTensionSlack ( 2.75in 0.4in )
                        ORTSCompressionStiffness ( 225kN 2275kN )
                        ORTSCompressionR0 ( 0in 1.0in )
                        ORTSCompressionSlack ( 2.75in 0.4in )
                        ORTSBreak ( 1800kN 2275kN )
                        )
                        CouplingHasRigidConnection ( 0 )
                        )
                        I use these values as an include file in my Common.inc folder. They can also be used in the .eng file in place of the MSTS coupler section, or as part of an open rails eng file --- in the wagon section of the file.
                        Public Domain
                        Last edited by R. Steele; 03-22-2024, 05:04 PM.
                        Cheers, Gerry
                        "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa
                        It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
                        Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.
                        Audi, Vide, Tace, Si Vis Vivere In Pace

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Jdark34 View Post
                          5.8e7n
                          At 13,038,919 lbs of force
                          You speak the truth --- they are never going to break...not even if Optimus Prime - the Hulk - Superman - and Mario went at them🤪🤪🤣

                          If you want never breaks for OR, don't check the break couplers box and/or use ORTSBreak ( 3000kN 3000kN ) -- that should do it.
                          Cheers, Gerry
                          "A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open." Frank Zappa
                          It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
                          Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.
                          Audi, Vide, Tace, Si Vis Vivere In Pace

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by oper190 View Post

                            Scott, all I know was that I had a consist with a sizable gap between the caboose and the car in front of it. After checking the consist for a missing car or an odd-ball, I found that the last car before the caboose was the same, a repeat, of the proceeding cars. Checking the caboose in BBE I found the Bounding Box was off, resized it and the consist then ran correctly. Found a similar problem with one of my own models not showing in consists or as static until I fixed the Bounding Box.
                            Hi...

                            I'm certainly not an expert on anything - just relaying my experiences - I've been wrong many times.


                            Regards,
                            Scott​
                            <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Testing Is/Was @ A Stand-Still? I took off all 5 Locomotives InertiaTensor , & Placed in R.Steele's ORTS Coupling. Well, The Results were ( OK ). The Coupling Lackness didn't really go away. Infact, It seem to've gotten worse? Yes, The SD70MAC's coupling-up to another got a little better (@ first ), then it soon came time to do the same to the others because They didn't Act the same as before. The Couplers went kind of wack. Well, once I did that, it seemed ok, except,..all but the Lead Unit was Coupled too Close together( esp. just pulling up, then seemed to loosen. I'm sorry, I apricate the help( even tried it ), but it's not working for me yet. YES, everything before was from an ORTS Locomotive as well too*.

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