Fitz Sub/Update 6 Now Available

[seagoon]

NVM the above, just bought it anyway.

Vern, pardon my antipodean ignorance, but what does "NVM" mean?

[NorthernWarrior]

Vern, pardon my antipodean ignorance, but what does "NVM" mean?

NVM = NeVer Mind!

As regards the Fitz., well it does appear to have a fair bit of potential with new industry to serve. What I've seen of the main line so far it is significantly more graded and curved than the rest of the Florida and Georgia network.

Slight downers, well yes the avenue of trees is alive and kicking hiding any distant views. Ironically if this was to avoid performance issues the opposite seems the case. My smooth 30 FPS now having a return of the "jinking" effect that I reported previously until I dropped my target FPS from 60 to 30. Otto AI DS seems to be struggling - in the scenario I started a number of trains are stood on passing tracks, crewed by AI drivers but either Otto is not clearing the signal or the trains are just sitting there.

Bakersfield Sub - already bought that, so missed out on the freebie, if that's what it was.

[dsflyer]

It's been found that installing the A-Line / Waycross Update very last is actully the best option. The part about "Compatibility with the CSX Fitzgerald Sub Route addon" doesn't mean that it has to be installed prior to the Fitz though.

[seagoon]

NVM = NeVer Mind!...

Thanks, squire.

With regard to the Fitz, I'll give that a miss, I think, due to the greenery.

[NorthernWarrior]

There is definitely something wrong with AI train movement on this route.
After reloading my saved session found several AI trains sat there "dead". Had to temporarily relinquish my train, take over the stuck ones and hand back to AI. Got them moving controlling DS myself but hand back to Otto and they just come up against a red signal with no attempt to route and clear the train.

So not sure at this point whether it's an issue with the route or something changed in the core.

Jason?

[qwhite451]

There is definitely something wrong with AI train movement on this route.
After reloading my saved session found several AI trains sat there "dead". Had to temporarily relinquish my train, take over the stuck ones and hand back to AI. Got them moving controlling DS myself but hand back to Otto and they just come up against a red signal with no attempt to route and clear the train.

So not sure at this point whether it's an issue with the route or something changed in the core.

Jason?

Thank God im not the only one seeing this even after enabling Otto the trains just sit there even when the line is clear and nothing is coming at them im not sure what is going on

[NorthernWarrior]

Thanks, squire.

With regard to the Fitz, I'll give that a miss, I think, due to the greenery.

Well there are sections where you can see a bit and there are some nice new terrain textures too. The route itself is quite fun to drive with the frequent curves and gradient changes. So I wouldn't rule it out Bruce, maybe wait a few days and check out You Tube for reviews or ride clips.

It is just a shame as I said with this being a nice undulating green hilly route the decision was taken to screen so much of it off. I thought we left that sort of route building technique behind with MSTS. I would much rather the effort had gone into detailing further out from the track and giving us something to see, given the dense foliage must be hitting the frame rate.

the other thing this route also highlights, is that Run 8 needs better track sound. With all those tight curves being taken quite fast we need a bit of grind and flange squeal!

Thank God im not the only one seeing this even after enabling Otto the trains just sit there even when the line is clear and nothing is coming at them im not sure what is going on

The only thing I'm thinking is that the AIDS will not flight trains through long sections with intermediate signals, but seems to apply "absolute block" between each crossing loop (siding). However even allowing for that, things are just snarling up and the fact the AI trains themselves needed activating says something is set up wrong. Surely this was noticed in beta testing?

[qwhite451]

Just for a quick test to make sure i wasn't going crazy i jumped over to Socal and activated Otto ..works as intended so im gonna go back over to Fitz and try somethinng im gonna pick one of those world saves delete every train that's on the board and spawn them in one at a time

[SCLJim]

It is just a shame as I said with this being a nice undulating green hilly route the decision was taken to screen so much of it off. I thought we left that sort of route building technique behind with MSTS. I would much rather the effort had gone into detailing further out from the track and giving us something to see, given the dense foliage must be hitting the frame rate.

But that is what it is like. As someone that actually worked on the Fitzgerald, in real life, as well as about 500 total miles of territory I covered in Central Alabama and Georgia, 20 years ago, and that is absolutely 110% the way it was. It's just the nature of the southeast as there wasn't a lot of distant views to be seen. Those woods can get incredibly thick with hardwoods, pine saplings, hedge, kudzu, briars and honeysuckle to name just a few. Even during the winter, you didn't see far into the forests due to all the thick, dead foliage.

On the Lineville side going to Birmingham from Manchester, probably 90 percent of the trip or at least a good 80 percent was spent looking at trees and traveling through the backwoods of some really remote areas. The Manchester sub was pretty much the same way south of Atlanta and the north end of the Fitz was exactly like the Lineville side. As you got further south on the Fitz it opened up into more of an agricultural area but when it did open up more, into fields, it was flatter.

I'm just trying to understand what the expectations are. It's basically how far in the woods do you want to see? Five feet? 500 feet? Either way, the routes go through heavily wooded areas. Are you wanting them to be accurate to the experience of what it was like to run the actual route or for them to make some kind of fictional concession in order to look at more things? If running the backwoods for Georgia is not your cup of tea, then I get that. Anyway, I haven't worked on anything Run 8 related in a few years, but I do know enough to know that what they did do on the Fitzgerald sub took an incredible, incredible amount of time and effort.

As far as the performance thing, if you think you are getting a jerking effect due to the narrow avenue of low end trees, encompassing 50-100' of r.o.w., then what do you think it would be like with a half mile of complete scenery / right of way, forests and all, on either side of the track? What if there was a minimum half mile buffer zone of scenery surrounding the yard at Waycross. Could you imagine a bowl full of potentially 1000+ pieces of rolling stock competing for resources with a half mile of scenery around it? There's a reason you won't ever see 1000+ railcars in one area in TSW. Everyone's system has a finite number of resources, and it basically boils down to how much of those resources do you want dedicated to scenery vs rolling stock/trains. If your system is running 50-75% just off high-end scenery, that doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for the trains. On the flip side, how much wiggle room do you have for scenery when you have 3,000 cars in the yard at Waycross? The main area I've noticed any kind of performance hit is in Manchester and that could very well be due to the procedural veg on Pine Mountain which really isn't a lot of trees at all, in game, compared to what's there in real life.

I'm going to include some pics I made on the Lineville side 20 years ago. I can't find my Fitzgerald pics but as I mentioned earlier, the north end of the Fitz was exactly like the Lineville side.



There's no seeing in...

[seagoon]

But that is what it is like. As someone that actually worked on the Fitzgerald, in real life, as well as about 500 total miles of territory I covered in Central Alabama and Georgia, 20 years ago, and that is absolutely 110% the way it was.........
I'm going to include some pics I made on the Lineville side 20 years ago. I can't find my Fitzgerald pics but as I mentioned earlier, the north end of the Fitz was exactly like the Lineville side.

There's no seeing in...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]84053[/ATTACH]

What an excellent informative response.
Thank you for educating me, located as I am way Down Under, and completely ignorant of what the environment along the route is actually like.
Many thanks for now encouraging me to buy the route.

[NorthernWarrior]

Point taken about the trees, I shan't mention it again . Just a shame there wasn't a manual to explain that to those unfamiliar with the area.

As I said, enjoying the route overall - the gradients are a nice challenge but without the long grind of the western routes.

And hopefully Hyrail and R8 can sort out the AIDS issues.

[seagoon]

......hopefully Hyrail and R8 can sort out the AIDS issues.

Vern, maybe you should change that acronym to something less medical.

[haverfordwest]

Point taken about the trees, I shan't mention it again . Just a shame there wasn't a manual to explain that to those unfamiliar with the area.

As I said, enjoying the route overall - the gradients are a nice challenge but without the long grind of the western routes.

And hopefully Hyrail and R8 can sort out the AIDS issues.

Yup but the trees in the real pics are not 2D.

[NorthernWarrior]

yup but the trees in the real pics are not 2d.

[SurvivorSean]

Even Bakersfield Sub that popped up for me lately had much better foilage which is realistic as you are going to see from the cab as you move away from the desert.

I went through all my ideas that I've posted for Run8 and I was surprised how many have been implemented. There is of course a more recent one I really hope gets implemented at some point and that is AI switching. In fact if it was part of a V4 I would pay for it just like I did for V3 and Otto's imperfections (they'll get it worked out and impoved as they are trying). I haven't been in Run8 much lately but I'm trying something different again to see if Northern CA works.

I really want to take advantage of some of these routes. Fitzgerald from what I've seen from Jason's videos is a work of art. The reason why I haven't purchasd it yet is because it's become a much bigger region. The bigger the region the tougher it is to simulate properly without the numbers on your server.

Hopefully I can get enough interest in Northern CA on my server that goes up and down at various times. If not I'll hope and wait for Run8 to release AI switching while trying some projects of my own.

Thanks

Sean