"LOAD IN 20FT CAPABLE WELLS ONLY"

[ossie]

At first glance I assumed this shouldn't have been loaded on a spine car (and possibly shouldn't have been), but the "20ft capable" description got me wondering if there are well cars that aren't set up to hold 20 foot containers? I've never made a study of the insides of well cars but ASSUMED a 20 would be able to travel in any size/model. The wording of that stencil compared to say "well car loading only" (for instance) seems to suggest otherwise. Does anyone know?

[eric]

I wonder if that's for the benefit of the marine companies, not the railroad.

[ossie]

Fair point Eric. I was only considering it from a RR point of view, not the shippers/owners so a "non-capable 20ft well" wasn't something I'd ever considered.

[eric]

In a marine stack, the bottom position needs to lock to each corner -- the 40 ft locks are standard, but it's possible not all stacking positions have the midpoint locks needed for 20 ft units.

Do well cars have locking points? I've always assumed it was gravity keeping the containers in position.

[derekmorton]

Do well cars have locking points? I've always assumed it was gravity keeping the containers in position

I suggest that would not be allowed, put a container on top and you could lose both.

Glaring safety issue.

[ossie]

I actually have no idea Eric. It wasn't something I'd ever given any thought to prior to seeing that pic. I probably would have assumed (there's that word again) that they did lock in to prevent a 40 footer shifting in a 53ft well as an example, but yep, I really have no idea. Hopefully one of the non-pixel train guys can shed some light on it for me. 😊

Edit... sorry Derek, I must have started responding to Eric before you hit your post key. But yes, I agree. With the forces involved, they must have a way to lock them into place, so if that is a RR instruction in the pic, some well cars must only be set up to hold larger containers??

[burgerbern]

Found this on the web

Twist locks are usually used to lock shipping containers to the train car and one another. These mechanical fittings, which are included in the corners of the container, enable the container's locking when stacked on top of another container. The shipping container stacked on top of another one is fastened to the one at the bottom.

and another

A container, like any other 'free' load on a truly flat deck would have to be chained or properly welded down in accordance with AAR loading guidelines. Containers in normal intermodal service are always carried on their corner blocks, restrained either in well cars or locked down on twist locks. They do not 'balance' on spine car center sills, but are on corner block twist locks mounted on the 'arms.' The entire weight of the container is carried directly by the corners - rail, ship or highway. you can see the permanent locks above the end of the stub side sill on the (near) B end of the spine car. The locks at the other end of the car are retracted into the trailer wheel deck (to clear the tires of a 53' trailer or a long-base 45 or 48).

on our spine cars you can see the twist lock bases on the decks at the 40ft position, i have to guess that the bottom of the well cars have something similar, although some posts i found suggested that the bottom container is held purely by the volume of the container that is inside the well body and the various guides that you can see, with the top container mechanically attached to the bottom container with locking pins, and the of course the earlier twin stack cars had huge vertical ends with mechanical locking arms to clamp the top of the lower container and bottom of the higher ones in place. tried to find a pic of the locking inside a well but have not found one yet.

[ossie]

I had no luck with photos either Bernard but found a few "look down" videos. I'm not sure how clear this pic will be but I'm assuming there's a 3rd one of those "ribs" hidden by the EMP container. I'm sure the 20s would sit between them and the locks would hold either side of the ribs but I also saw a few others that didn't look so obvious for fitting 20s, particularly the wells with the "circles" on the bottom of them. The video they were in wasn't as clear as the one I got the pic from but I couldn't see any sign of locking points in them at all. Perhaps they're the ones that aren't "20ft capable"??

[eric]

I know the spine cars have the locks, and the double stacks get locked down to each other, but I was thinking specifically about the well cars.

When you have that much structure around the bottom of a 40ft container, it's not much different than a load in a gondola.

[ossie]

Interesting you mentioned gondolas Eric. The other video I watched was a lot more grainy than the one I got the screenshot from, so some details might have been washed out, but a couple of the well car types did resemble gondola interiors with flat sides and floors. If they had "ribs" like the pic above or locking points in the floors, I certainly couldn't make them out in the video.

[CSRX]

I've seen some well cars that say "do not load 20' containers." Mainly on some 53' well car 3 packs or singles. I did see it marked on a 40' single well cars before though.

[pwillard]

I've seen some well cars that say "do not load 20' containers." Mainly on some 53' well car 3 packs or singles. I did see it marked on a 40' single well cars before though

Logical deduction (to me anyway) is due to "load lock spacing" and "weight/support distribution" required by the 53 that a 40 can provide but not 2 of the 20's.
Or maybe those cars don't have the locks installed for the 20'.

[ossie]

Those sort of variations must really keep the guys at the loading ramps on their toes. The other side of that I'm always quite interested in is seeing 10 spine cars (for instance) where there'll be 6 containers straight on the spines and 4 that are loaded still sitting on the truck trailers. There's always something to scratch your head over/ponder.

[CSRX]

Those sort of variations must really keep the guys at the loading ramps on their toes. The other side of that I'm always quite interested in is seeing 10 spine cars (for instance) where there'll be 6 containers straight on the spines and 4 that are loaded still sitting on the truck trailers. There's always something to scratch your head over/ponder.

Well... In theory sure, but I have seen 20' containers loaded in a well that says do not load 20' containers..