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    A question for the Vietnam Vets among us.

    In my unending quest for military history, their is a couple questions I have, and it is about the rifles the NVA and the VC used.

    It appears that the NVA used primarily AK-47's with a minor splattering of SKS Carbines thrown it. This is what period photos and practically all the vets, that I have spoke to and read from, agree too.

    Now the confusion starts (for me anyway), In most accounts that i have read of state clearly that the VC was most heavily armed with Mosin Nagant rifles, SKS's, captured American weapons, with a few Jap rifles, French weapons, and even WWII era Soviet capture German Mauser's and Machineguns thrown in for good measure..

    Even the vets I have spoke to disagree on this subject.. One says..."They ALL had AK47's" too " The VC used mostly old bolt action rifles that where long as hell" <---excuse the solder language, but that is what he said.

    And about every point in between.

    It has baffled me.. Did the VC's weapons depend on WHERE they where in Vietnam, and year??

    As the war drug on, did they get up gunned to AK-47's or was their primary weapon the bolt action rifle till the end of the war?? Or did that too depend on "WHERE" they where in country?

    Boiled down, what I am asking is..

    Just how COMMON, where Mosins, and other bolt action rifles where in the hands of the VC? Did they use these till the end of the war, or where they being phased out in favor or automatic arms?

    Where WWII era submachinguns in much us by the irregular forces?

    Where German, Jap, and French Weapons encountered, much, if at all.

    The reason I am asking this here is, I know we have more than a few vets among us, and sometimes I feel that when I talk to the "local" vets, I get a bit of "marshal embellishment" All I want is the "straight poop" on this and personal experience.

    For the record, I do have a very close friend that is a Vietnam vet, but he does not like to talk about it, and I will not ask him about it out of respect.

    Thanks in advance!!
    http://intrepidappalachian.blogspot.com/

    sigpic The boost is high, and I am flying low...Thunderbird Turbo Coupe

    #2
    "Did the VC's weapons depend on WHERE they where in Vietnam, and year?"

    Andy,

    Well, far as I can figure, they used anything, anytime that they could get their hands on. Beyond that, I don't know, but I think attributing some "great long-range plan" to the choice of armament is a bit of a stretch...

    P.S. Any leftover French drugs, weapons or you-name-it were all over the place. If they could be made serviceable...you figure it out.
    Last edited by pstraten; 05-29-2008, 11:02.
    PaulS

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      #3
      The VC used most anything that they could get their hands on - mostly WW2 leftovers. The NVA and better equipped VCs were armed with Soviet AK-47s and other military equipment. There were a lot of RPG's, 82mm mortars, and other items including Communist Chinese equipment. This made for logistic nightmares on their part until enough Soviet military equipment was available to supply VC forces with standard Soviet issue weapons.

      Note, the AK 47 was designed around the 7.62 mm NATO ammo found in our M-60 and older M-14 rifles. However, they were chambered to use Soviet Block standard 7.63mm ammo. Our 7.62mm would work in their rifles but their 7.63 would jam in ours. All Soviet Block common standard ammo was designed similarly.

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        #4
        "82mm mortars"

        Gee, I do remember those, Ron!
        PaulS

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          #5
          >Note, the AK 47 was designed around the 7.62 mm NATO ammo found in our M-60 and older M-14 rifles. However, they were chambered to use Soviet Block standard 7.63mm ammo. Our 7.62mm would work in their rifles but their 7.63 would jam in ours. All Soviet Block common standard ammo was designed similarly.

          I've aways thought that the AK-47's were based on the same concepts developed by the Germans in their STG43.That would be a standard rifle round in a shortened cartridge.Isn't the 7.62 NATO round a full length rifle round?I'm not looking for an arguement here,I just want clarification.Andy,as the resident firearms expert here,can you help me out?
          Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.- Winston Churchill

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            #6
            Gix, I just came on for a moment, saw your post..In short their are minor differences, the confusion comes from the fact that they are all 7.62 rifles... The difference is in the cartridge length. Hell even the Russian 7.62 is NOT really a true 7.62...

            And to top it off, the Russians had about 3 different versions of the 7.62 round, and NONE where interchangeable.

            I don't have time to explain right now, but I will make another post tonight detailing the differences.

            Thanks for the info guys, I wish I had more time this morning to make a big post, but I can't!
            http://intrepidappalachian.blogspot.com/

            sigpic The boost is high, and I am flying low...Thunderbird Turbo Coupe

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              #7
              Alright!! I got a few...But I have a softball double header coming up in a few hours, and I got a trailer on my truck that I need to drop, so I will have wheels, I also got to "warm up" my ballplayer so I will have wheels, So unlike a lot of my posts, their will be a lot of "copy and pasting" from Wikipedia. In this one!

              First of, in the US Military, every caliber is designated by projectile diameter, or caliber. i.e.. Example being. the 7.62, and the 5.56mm weapons..

              The 7.62 being the 30 caliber firearm, for years practically everyone used a 7.62 rifle for their military weapons. The M1 Garand is a 7.62 rifle...So is the M1 Carbine, it too is a 7.62. Heck, even early Lugers, C-96 Mauser broom handle pistols are also 7.62 caliber. The Tokerev pistol that communist nations used for years is a 7.62 caliber as well...as was the Nagant revolver it replaces, it was yet another .30 caliber weapon... The AK47 and related weapons are ALL 7.62 weapons as well. Not to mention the Mosin nagant Rifles are ALL 7.62 weapons as well.

              OK then Andy, certainly all those varied weapons cannot fire the same round, like your alluding to in your post

              No they can't, the one thing that they have in common is the 7.62mm BULLET DIAMETER..

              In American weapons that is a .308 "Thousands of an inch"

              Years ago, in the 1880 a Russian discovered that the 30 caliber bullet (read 7.62 mm) was just about the perfect mix of killing power and long range accuracy for military rifles. Bigger bullets had more killing power but less effective range, smaller bullets had more long range accuracy but less likely to kill their target..

              The 7.62mm or .30 caliber, or .308 diameter <---(they all mean the same thing, just different ways of saying it)was the best compromise for a military rifle.

              Okay now lets add OTHER cartridges dimensions...Here is where I will be posting from WIKI..

              I will post the military designation of that caliber, than the commercial designations, and list a few common weapons in that caliber....they will ALL be 7.62 weapons. Also note, that for example the 7.62x 51 designation is (Diameter x Length)

              "30-06" early military designation, (caliber-year) in other words, "30 caliber 1906" also known as 7.62x63mm also known as (American .30 Caliber) commercial known as the "30 aught Six" Chambered in the M1 Garand, BAR, M1 Springfield, M1919 machinguns and MANY MANY, hunting rifles



              7.62 NATO, OR 7.62x51 OR .308 Winchester <--(This version is dimensionally the same, but loaded HOT), M14, M60 Machine gun, M240 Machine gun, many sniper rifles, Basically a shortened 30-06





              Next up is....

              The 7.62 Russian....Otherwise known as the 7.62 x54R (the R meaning RIMMED) Mosin Nagant rifles, practically ALL Soviet rifle caliber weapons are chambered in this round,(till the post WW2 era) today it is still used in some Soviet machine guns and the Dragunov Sniper Rifle.





              Next up is the 7.62x39 also known as 7.62 Soviet Ak-47, SKS Carbine, RPK, several smaller machine guns, very little American commercial production. Basically a shortened 7.62x54R






              Now for a pistol caliber..

              7.62 x 25, or 7.62 Tokarev



              I am running out of time...here is some WIKI links to OTHER 7.62 caliber rounds... and you can see where the mass confusion comes from..


              http://intrepidappalachian.blogspot.com/

              sigpic The boost is high, and I am flying low...Thunderbird Turbo Coupe

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                #8
                You guys are way over my head on this - LOL

                As a simple sailor working in a CP in a combat zone my personal weapon was pistol.
                Orginally qualified (later using hand loaded ammo and a match grade piece belonging to a friend of mine shot expert) on the timeless M1911a1 "Hand Howitzer"
                Later as an officer qualified and shot expert on the 38 pistol and evntually the Baretta 9mm...

                Also along the way I familiarization fired but never qualified with the M14 and the AR15 (before it became the M16) and in Sub-School the Browning Semi-Auto Shotgun and the Thompson .45 cal sub-machine gun

                My son was in the 82nd and had dangles on his hang - down (Expert Medal) for M16 - 82mm Morter, 60 mm Morter, grenade launcher (we called it the blooker but I think this was the newer version in the late 80s when he did ) and also the regular hand grenade (I asked him about that one since we always talked about close only counts in lawn darts (Quoits?) and Hand Grenades or later when we were in particularly bad mood "thermonuclear devices"
                Chuck Schneider
                Chief Cook and Bottle Washer (Virtual CEO)
                North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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                  #9
                  Actually you get "Expert" in hand grenade just for not blowing yourself up with it. I know one girl that got Marksman with it. She only blew up the Sergeant-Major's jeep with one...

                  It's amazing that a frag can flip a jeep all the way over like that...

                  Robert
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                    #10
                    Was he in it?
                    Chuck Schneider
                    Chief Cook and Bottle Washer (Virtual CEO)
                    North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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                      #11
                      Yes. He did manage to un-ass it quite quickly and move a safe distance away - head first into a hole in the ground. Only damage was to his jeep - and his dignity!

                      Robert
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by rdamurphy View Post
                        Yes. He did manage to un-ass it quite quickly and move a safe distance away - head first into a hole in the ground. Only damage was to his jeep - and his dignity!

                        Robert
                        ROFL - love those stories - remind me to tell you of the time while mess-cooking (KP in the Green Machine) that I dumped a bowl of cut corn on the COB (Chief of the Boat - aka Sgt Maj to you ground pounders - he did not appreciate "Corn on the COB")
                        Chuck Schneider
                        Chief Cook and Bottle Washer (Virtual CEO)
                        North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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