Russia sez: Choose: us or them.

[muskokaandtahoe]

I would say where was the condemnation when Chechnya was being levelled? Where were was the criticism when Putin was busy seizing control of the Russian media? The Putin regime is authoritarian, intolerant, nationalistic, populist and corrupt.

Well I was critical (not here but in conversation elsewhere). And your description of the Putin regime is good enough fo rme.

On the otherhand, it is easy to see why Russia considers Georgia, Ukraine and Estonia (and the west) to be hostile to it.

Are you suggesting it's not deserved?

At the same time these states do not exactly help themselves by pursuing anti-Russian domestic policies such as language laws that exclude 1/3 of the population and erecting statues to the SS who attacked Russiaduring WW2.

I've not heard of that SS stuff. Can you cite some sources? As for language... sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for bi-lingualism. Especially under the circumstances of the Baltic states and the Ukraine.

The west has hamstrung itself by its support for Kosovo which was also separated from a new democracy by force.

I don't agree. Serbia is a bunch of vicious, passive/aggessive thugs. Russia's a lot bigger, not crazy like Serbia, but not Mr Nice Guy either. I'd cast my vote on behalf on any group that wanted to cut free of either one. As for trying to liken them to Georgia... sorry, they're in a league by themselves as far as I'm concerned.

Russia is no more historically xenophobic than any other state.

Oh puleeeze.

[Erick_Cantu]

Russia sez: Choose: us or them

That statement sounds remarkably familiar... as familiar as it was intended to sound, really.

I like the analysis here:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_georgian_war_and_balance_power

[OwainGlyndwr]

Look at it this way - if the Chinese or Russians announced that they were setting up a missile defense shield?

That will come in the future, you can almost guarantee some sort of Russia\China pact some where down the line.

To counter the USA's super power dominance of the world.

Mike.

[Dan1]

Dave - No, it is not the same. If the borders had been resolved in 1992 then the issue of the South Ossetians, Transnistrians etc would not be an issue. The fact of the matter is that the South Ossetian conflict has been taking place on and off since 1992. The South Ossetians and Abkahzi have never wanted to be part of Georgia. Much as the Transnistrians have no desire to be Moldovan.

It is not a question as to whether or not the hostility towards Russia is deserved or not. The question is why does Russia view those states the way in the way it does. It is hostile towards them because it considers them to be hostile towards it. I am not so interested in value judgements about deserved/undeserved or good guys and bad guys.

As for language laws - well unfortunately the ethnic boundaries of Eastern Europe are not nice and compact and in line with those of the state. 50% of the Ukrainian population consider themselves to be ethnically Russian and speak Russian not Ukrainian, 33% of the Estonian population is ethnically Russian, go north or east of Chisinau in Moldova and people speak Russian not Moldovan. Estonian language laws mean that to even have citizenship of the Estonian state you have to speak Estonian. This has been used as a law to sack Russians from jobs and to exclude them. The fact of life is that these states ARE bi-lingual in every day life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_of_Lihula - statue - one of a number, there have also been debates over marches by Waffen SS veterans in Estonia. Freedom fighters or war criminals.

As for Serbia - again, it is not about 'good or evil' but about the principle established. Kosovo was separated from Serbia by force of arms violating the integrity of a democratic state - Milosevic fell in 2000 and the country has been developing its democracy since then.

[plainsman]

I think the mindset in Russia has been missed all along. Just Google "Yamantau Mountain". You don't spend that kind of money to store art. It may be getting completed, if so, we may be in a horrid situation, and the Russians just baiting the USA into a reason to start something.!

[maiatcat]

Mike, you may be right and that would not be a bad thing! It would at least keep the Neo-cons, who appear to have an imperialist agenda, in check and from remaking the world in their own image.

That will come in the future, you can almost guarantee some sort of Russia\China pact some where down the line.

To counter the USA's super power dominance of the world.

Mike.

[Paul1953]

You may have heard of the Shanghai Accord? Five nations, Russia, China, Iran, Uzbekistan, and Khyrgistan signed on last year.

Russia and Cuba are in talks to base Russian long-range bombers on the island once again.

[Jonatan08]

"AHHH MOTHERLAND!"

/Jonatan

[rdamurphy]

What's a "neocon?"

Robert

[Erick_Cantu]

I think the mindset in Russia has been missed all along. Just Google "Yamantau Mountain". You don't spend that kind of money to store art. It may be getting completed, if so, we may be in a horrid situation, and the Russians just baiting the USA into a reason to start something.!

Russia is already threatening to nuke Poland.

[Andy J]

Sounds like Putin, has been taking lessons from the "weird beards" in Iran....


Why not, saber rattling seems to work for them.

[rdamurphy]

I suppose after the brutality of the World War 2, and the lessons learned from the Cold War, Russia certainly has become somewhat, maybe not paranoid, but overly prepared. We, on the other hand, have taken our success on the battlefield and now feel that we're invincible to the point where 911 was a hard lesson. Well, for some of us. For others, history began yesterday...

Robert

[Paul1953]

Sounds like Putin, has been taking lessons from the "weird beards" in Iran....


Why not, saber rattling seems to work for them.

Not really, there was a report months ago the Polish territory might be targeted as a consequence of having American ABMs next to Russia.

The lapdogs in the MSM, are digging up everything they can to throw on the trash heap of reason. As per orders.

[Andy J]

Not really, there was a report months ago the Polish territory might be targeted as a consequence of having American ABMs next to Russia.

The lapdogs in the MSM, are digging up everything they can to throw on the trash heap of reason. As per orders.

Actually, I have not heard that from MSM or any other outlet... It was just a thought I had..

The big difference between Iran and Russia tho, is that Russia can back up the tough talk...Iran, well, Frankly, could not punch it's way out of a wet paper bag.

LOL Reminds me of them sending out the "Praise Allah speed boats" to face down American Warships... LOL

You know, Since the Cole bombing, the Phalanx system can now deal with such minor threats....LOL What a sight that would be! That would be more entertaining than Ayatollah Khomeini Funeral!

[cp5513]

You may have heard of the Shanghai Accord? Five nations, Russia, China, Iran, Uzbekistan, and Khyrgistan signed on last year.

Actually the original 'Shanghai 5' where: China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan & Tajikistan. Uzbekistan joined later. Iran is not officially part of it, though they have applied. Currently they have observer status, as do Pakistan, India and Mongolia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation

Though they seem to be trying to create an Asian version of NATO, don't be surprised if China and Russia have a falling out in the next decade or two. Historically they are competitors, not allies.