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Thread: Little question for the creators of the web site: Train

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Salon de Provence, France.
    Posts
    97

    Default Little question for the creators of the web site: Train

    Hello everybody,

    I downloaded a many locos on the site of trainsim.com and often there is a big difference between files "ENG".
    I never have drive of locomotives, but for SD40-2 (for example), there are many files "ENG" and I would like to know which are the most real files "ENG" ?

    I would like to know if you could not create in your "File Library", in the option:
    "Sort file list by the most realistic ENG":
    An option "called the best ENG"

    I had this idea because often I download locomotives and file ENG is not very real.
    The TOP would be to have the possibility of choosing these locomotives by selecting the best ENG

    And of this fact we would have locomotives who possesses best set-up and so the most similar to the reality.

    What do you think of this idea?

    Thank's in advance for your help.

    Roderizator.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA.
    Posts
    14,705

    Default RE: Little question for the creators of the web site: T

    Hmmm. Well, if I may be so presumptuous as to speak for Nels, impossible. There are a lot of addons uploaded every day, and before they are posted to the file library, the files are scanned for viruses and checked to see if they unzip and are not corrupted. That's it, they're not tested to see if they actually work, and in at least one case there's a utility ("Route Buddy") that (A) overwrites critical system files with older files without warning, and (B) doesn't work anyway. Quality control of any kind would be a full time job for several people requiring a lot of money and time, and which are the "best" eng files would be subjective anyway.

    Did you know that derailments in train simulator are keyed to the speed limit? How tight the radius of the curve, how rough the trackwork is, doesn't matter - if the speed limit is 150 mph you can go thu bad track joints and switches at 149mph, if the speed limit is 20mph then a 2000 meter radius curve will derail you at 21mph.

    So judging how "realistic" an .eng file is compared to any other .eng file won't work anyway, the physics of the game itself are unrealistic, so exact physics numbers really don't work as well as numbers adjusted to compensate for the programming faults. And that becomes subjective as well, how realistic something "feels" depends on who's doing the feeling.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    TrainSim.Com World HQ
    Posts
    843

    Default RE: Little question for the creators of the web site: T

    What you are suggesting is pretty much impossible.

    It would require a team of people to actually install, use, and evaluate each of more than 10,000 files in the library.

    Then, set up a rating system and assign a rating to each file.

    Then modify the file library software to add additional sorting options to those that already exist.

    Besides the huge amount of work this would be, the even bigger problem is that "best" is highly subjective, and quite often two people will not agree on whether something works correctly or not. This is especially true with train equipment as few of us here are actual locomotive engineers with the experience to know what the real equipment should work like.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    near Jacksonville, TX
    Posts
    6,205

    Default RE: Little question for the creators of the web site: T

    Hi,
    I agree, the rating system would be a bad and unworkable idea. Some people want a locomotive to behave like a car, and MSTS is a game, with activities set up just to see the traffic go by. Others want a simulator and prefer prototypical performance as much as possible.
    Now I don't claim to have a corner on perfection on physics improvements in MSTS, but if you get the V4.5 files and install them as the directions suggest, you will find many trains are much more like real train performance. Even better, add the V4.6 rolling stock physics updates and performance will be even more realistic. If you find a few files that are V4.7 physics (my latest method, which in particular has much more realistic braking), those should be even better. I have had some of the equipment tested against actual train performance on realistic routes (you can't expect a train to perform realistically on the default Marias Pass route, as it has almost 3 times the steepness of the real grades), and it is surprising how close much of this comes to performance, if it is all set up properly. The new friction program by Joe Realmuto will add greatly to realistic performance (V4.7 files use this program for friction lines). If you want to update a lot of equipment to a standard of physics, use Derek's EngMod program. With a little work, you can achieve a much more realistic simulator.
    Also, keep in mind that not all SD40-2s are the same. Some weigh 358,000 pounds and some weigh 418,000 pounds. These would behave quite differently in the real world and in the simulator if set up properly. Also, some equipment will have slightly better bearings and fresher brakeing gear, and a little more maintainance than others. That means you can have a little variety in the consists and also be realistic. Not all .wag files or .eng files are made to be realistic however. Some folks will just stick a GP38-2 .eng file into a GP7 and feel it is close enough for their purposes. Also some data gets installed incorrectly. You have to scrutinize the files to assure yourself the file is set up correctly. Even well meaning folks sometimes copy data from the wrong file (I found that in a file I downloaded this morning).
    So choose a standard, and review each file before you move it to your trainset to set up the physics to that standard. It really isn't that bad, I have modified thousands of files, so if you don't have that many files in your sytem yet, it will be easy to upgrade them.
    Hope this is helpful
    Bob

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Salon de Provence, France.
    Posts
    97

    Default RE: Little question for the creators of the web site: T

    Hello everybody,

    I did not know that my idea could be also complicated and create so many problems.
    So, you can forget my question, because this question is stupid.
    Bye and have a good day.

    Roderizator ;-)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    near Jacksonville, TX
    Posts
    6,205

    Default RE: Little question for the creators of the web site: T

    Hello Olivier,
    I don't think your question is stupid, but to create a rating system would be very difficult to accomplish, and unlikely to please everyone since we are all not after the same goals.
    BTW, I might mention, the "Wild West" is pretty hard to really find these days. I think you will find the US a very interesting and friendly place to visit, but it may not be as you expect. Interstate highways and cellphones have permiated nearly every part of the country. That is not to say you can't find ranches and wilderness, but it will take a concerted effort to get off the beaten path and get out into the real remaining bastions of nostalgic life. Don't be surprised if the cowboys spend more time in a pickup than on a horse, and that they buy their beans in a WalMart.
    The train traffic here though will definitely make a trip to the US interesting. I live on one of the busiest stretches of freight lines anywhere, and can see 17,000 ton coal trains and fast intermodals running at what most would consider a frantic pace. About 150 freight trains go through here a day.
    Bob Boudoin

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