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Thread: the care and feeding of the newbies

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
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    Newmarket, Ontario, Canada.
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    6,851

    Default the care and feeding of the newbies

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    Since late last year, we have seen the arrival of another group of new members. Some of these are already contributing to the community, as most members have done since the beginning. However we seem to have attracted, yet again , the sorts of people who have a way of causing far too much mischief. We have seen people flood forums with all manner of posts, most of which would not have been tolerated in an earlier time. Not to mention the bad grammar, bad spelling, bad manners, bad... you name it.

    I never thought I would see the day , when a new group of members would exceed the worst excesses of the group that started here some 1 1/2 to 2 years ago, but it has happened. This does not bode well for the next series of knocks on the door.

    What makes it worse, is that now there is constant bickering on the forums, especially at the Engine and Livery, and ScreenShots. There is far too much attention being given to those, who might otherwise be marginalised by a true lack of response on our parts. Giving them attention has only made things worse. Indeed, when someone steps out of line, by all means, let them know about it. But maybe, if left alone, the people posting the threads might just finally 'get it', and change their approach. By the same token, provoking the established membership is no way to win any friends here either.

    I'm not one to curb someone's enthusiasm. Railfanning and trainsimming should be encouraged. But something has to give, before this place really becomes a mess.

    To the newest members:

    Don't ever think think that just because your post count is higher than someone else's, that they don't know as much as you. If anything the opposite will hold true. I read here not long ago, someone with an abnormally large post count , try to berate a member with far less posts, like they were a newbie, not realising that this person has been here since Day 1. To my knowledge, having been supplied with that information, the Day 1 person has yet to recieve any kind of apology.

    We dont need endless updates on your projects. If you have declared your intention to do something, go and do it. Then come back when you have something to talk about. If somebody asks you how your project is going, then fine, by all means, let them know. But " hey! I painted a door!!" has gotten old.

    Learn to read what you have written, before you post . Thats called editing. I swear, I dont know how some of you have been able to get this far, but I do know you wont be going much farther without even basic spelling skills. If in doubt, pick up a dictionary, or a thesaurus ( NO, it aint a dinosaur! ) once in a while, or at least ask somebody. If you post isn't coherent ( that means'understandable')you will be in for a hard time.

    If you want to be treated with respect, then conduct yourself in a respectful manner. These forums are used by thousands, of all ages, and most of them use language without colloquialisms ( look it up! ). Speak plainly, you will be understood.

    There's more , a lot more I could go on about. I'm sure that others will add to this. None of the above was designed to start a flame war, although thats probably inevitable.

    Do what you will, I've had my say.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Belfast, Antrim, Ireland.
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    Default RE: the care and feeding of the newbies

    Paul,

    Youre right in everything you said above. I think that a core root of the problem (once again ; sorry ;) ) is that people are using this place like an IM/Chatroom and posting things like "LOL" and "Thank You"

    And yes, that leads to certain people sayin "Look I did this", "I patched this".

    If you look in the skinning forum, CATMAN has taken up at least 10 (or so) of the latest threads.

    Personally, I think a lot more effort also needs to be put into moderating this forum. BTW, well said Paul :)

    Thomas

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Workington and Leeds, Great Britain.
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    413

    Default RE: the care and feeding of muppets

    Simply put, if anyone consistently flames from now on I will delete their every post and thread. Things are starting to get totally out of hand.

    If "noobies" and self-styled "old hands" alike behaved sensibly, like normal people, there would be no need for moderation. We moderators can't be around all the time, so we need to be informed if things are getting out of hand.

    Some people have been PMing and emailing me when they believe things are getting out of control, and those matters are dealt with. But too many threads are spiralling out of control before mods can get on the scene. That is the real problem.

    What I see all too often is some smart-ass replying to a "noob's" probably unecessary post with a totally uneccessary post of his own. The "noob" replies, then the "old hand" replies, and everyone decides it's a great idea to join in. DON'T.

    If you see a pointless post, don't respond to it, PM one of your friendly and helpful moderators who will sort things out accordingly. Let's not all waste each other's time and energy with baiting and defending, shall we?

    Harley

    P.S. Another observation I've made is that all too often someone replies "Yeah, sort your spelling out xxxx" when more often than not there's a spelling mistake in that very clever response...

    EDIT: Glad we're on the same page. But is everyone else?

  4. #4
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    Default RE: the care and feeding of muppets

    We are in accord. Thank you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Newport News, VA, US.
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    4,610

    Default RE: the care and feeding of muppets

    I'm with yall on this one... Although I have been involved most if not all of the flame wars, it's starting to get plain pathetic. Fighting does nothing for the forum. People come in, read this mess, and run. We are doing nothing for the community like this. I'm all for giving it a shot, but I see slim chances of this working.

    Jason Underwood
    Newport News, Virginia
    [email protected]

    [a
    href="http://www.freewebs.com/jay611/"][Link Expired][/a]

  6. #6
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    Massachusetts
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    Default RE: the care and feeding of the newbies

    I agree with Paul 100%. The Engine and Livery forum has gotten completely out of hand. I used to enjoy a visit there to see what everyone is working on, but now it is just filled with nonsense.

    Uncle! Enough already!!

    The sad thing is, it mostly revolves around 6 or 7 people. Thats it. Some are new to the forum, but the more disturbing thing is the guys who have been here a while tossing on the gasoline. Why does this continue to happen? Why is it there are no reprocussions for your actions here? How big of a deal is it for a moderator to delete certain posts? I know that it basically takes an act of god for someone to get thrown out of here, but I don't pay the bills so that's not a decion for me to make. But why don't the mods delete these useless posts more often?
    Right now in the Screenshot area, there is a post that has a couple of shots by the original poster, then a dozen or so replies centered on someone elses sig or completely unrelated website. Why not just delete the posts that have nothing to do with subject and continue. It's the same people over and over so warnings and such just don't seem to cut it.

    I have to wonder how much cool stuff people are working on that will never see the light of day here because of a handfull of idiots... It's too bad... x(
    -Mike

  7. #7
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    Rydal, Georgia, USA.
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    784

    Default RE: the care and feeding of muppets

    I'm also in accord. I'll admit I've made my share of dumb posts, but I'm ready to act more mature. There was always a "more mature" member saying lolzzz1212 or something like that to a post, and then 10 other people would jump in and then someone would say something profane, and it would be locked. Look at the HELM post, where a certain member had to comment on my sig for no reason, and that insulted people that hadn't done a thing. The thing I dislike the most is the grammer corrections that are misspelled. Hopefully other "noobs" like me will start acting more mature. :)

  8. #8
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    Oldenburg, Niedersachsen, Germany.
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    Default RE: the care and feeding of the newbies

    100% Agreement!!!

    Two things I have to add, which do annoy me big time, and which is also symptomatically as of late:

    1) Pseudo-Companies: Everybody seems it is necessary to form some sort of "virtual" company. When the first came up, it was some sort of group-identification, which actually means something; think NALW or SLW! These days, it seems to me, it is cool to get some dudes together, call your self something locomotive works, pull up a more or less well-made website and make stupid (see above post) announcements about big-as projects... The real output instead is very limited. Guys, at this stage, just think and maybe it occurs to you, that a group or company has a lot more credibility when it actually can provide a product...

    2) Chat room style posts with less than complete sentence, often paired with bad spelling and/or grammar. It does shock me still that I as a non-English-speaker speak a superior English than a good portion in this forum... So, if you have something to say, think about it, if you can't spell properly, type it in a word-processor, use the spell-checker and then copy it into the forum! If you don't have to say more than "yes" or "lol", stick it somewhere, but spare us the bandwidth! You don't need to end it writing novels, but I and many others come here to learn something new rather than sift through endless pages of chat lingo...

    Thanks for listening...

    *steps off soapbox*
    Cheers,
    Sebastian


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Belfast, Antrim, Ireland.
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    Default RE: the care and feeding of the newbies

    Sie können nicht Englisch sprechen, JA!!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Workington and Leeds, Great Britain.
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    413

    Default RE: the care and feeding of the newbies


    "I'm with yall on this one... Although I have been involved most if not all of the flame wars, it's starting to get plain pathetic. Fighting does nothing for the forum. People come in, read this mess, and run. We are doing nothing for the community like this. I'm all for giving it a shot, but I see slim chances of this working."

    My advice to you is NOT get involved in any flame wars. If you do, exhort everyone to get back on topic then post relating to the original topic if it ever was useful. Then PM that forum's moderator.


    "Paul,

    Youre right in everything you said above. I think that a core root of the problem (once again ; sorry ) is that people are using this place like an IM/Chatroom and posting things like "LOL" and "Thank You"

    And yes, that leads to certain people sayin "Look I did this", "I patched this".

    If you look in the skinning forum, CATMAN has taken up at least 10 (or so) of the latest threads.

    Personally, I think a lot more effort also needs to be put into moderating this forum. BTW, well said Paul "

    [iPeople are using the place like an IM host, yet when everyone jumps on the flaming wagon it looks like Babel - everyone spewing posts left, right and centre.

    CATMAN1 has posted alot, I will admit, but there are many who have replied just as many times as him, including his detractors.

    After I'm done here I'll go and see what can be purged in the livery forum.

    A LOT more effort needs to be put by the community back into the forum. As I've said enough times already, Mods can only do so much - TELL us if something needs changin, and we will do it. We can't scour ever post of every thread looking for trouble.[/i]


    "I agree with Paul 100%. The Engine and Livery forum has gotten completely out of hand. I used to enjoy a visit there to see what everyone is working on, but now it is just filled with nonsense.

    Uncle! Enough already!!

    The sad thing is, it mostly revolves around 6 or 7 people. Thats it. Some are new to the forum, but the more disturbing thing is the guys who have been here a while tossing on the gasoline. Why does this continue to happen? Why is it there are no reprocussions for your actions here? How big of a deal is it for a moderator to delete certain posts? I know that it basically takes an act of god for someone to get thrown out of here, but I don't pay the bills so that's not a decion for me to make. But why don't the mods delete these useless posts more often?
    Right now in the Screenshot area, there is a post that has a couple of shots by the original poster, then a dozen or so replies centered on someone elses sig or completely unrelated website. Why not just delete the posts that have nothing to do with subject and continue. It's the same people over and over so warnings and such just don't seem to cut it.

    I have to wonder how much cool stuff people are working on that will never see the light of day here because of a handfull of idiots... It's too bad...

    -Mike"

    A good opinion. There may be a core of new posters, but there's an even larger number of people who do nothing but snipe and bitch and do nothing constructive - merely wasting bandwith.

    Believe me, if we mods delete a person's threads and posts often enough they'll soon get the message and pull up stakes, or Nels will pull out the permanent ban.

    The fellow with the sig which was such a hot topic has downscaled it - the person who was bitching about it couldn't be bothered letting a mod know, so I came across it by chance a day later. Lovely.

    Hopefully with time the handful of idiots will grow smaller.



    "I'm also in accord. I'll admit I've made my share of dumb posts, but I'm ready to act more mature. There was always a "more mature" member saying lolzzz1212 or something like that to a post, and then 10 other people would jump in and then someone would say something profane, and it would be locked. Look at the HELM post, where a certain member had to comment on my sig for no reason, and that insulted people that hadn't done a thing. The thing I dislike the most is the grammer corrections that are misspelled. Hopefully other "noobs" like me will start acting more mature."

    What we need from everyone is more than mere words. I'm not picking on you Daniel, but more often than not you, CATMAN1 and other so-called "noobs" are drawn into senseless mud-slinging matches, which is a shame.

    As for correcting bad grammar, it's one of the most petty insults in the book. Don't worry about it; it just reflects badly on the poster.

    What I can not stand, and which ties in with Sebastian's post somewhat, are people who speak like muppets "lolz i pwned ur a$$" and junk like that. Even when it's supposed to be a joke, it's just sad.



    "100% Agreement!!!

    Two things I have to add, which do annoy me big time, and which is also symptomatically as of late:

    1) Pseudo-Companies: Everybody seems it is necessary to form some sort of "virtual" company. When the first came up, it was some sort of group-identification, which actually means something; think NALW or SLW! These days, it seems to me, it is cool to get some dudes together, call your self something locomotive works, pull up a more or less well-made website and make stupid (see above post) announcements about big-as projects... The real output instead is very limited. Guys, at this stage, just think and maybe it occurs to you, that a group or company has a lot more credibility when it actually can provide a product...

    2) Chat room style posts with less than complete sentence, often paired with bad spelling and/or grammar. It does shock me still that I as a non-English-speaker speak a superior English than a good portion in this forum... So, if you have something to say, think about it, if you can't spell properly, type it in a word-processor, use the spell-checker and then copy it into the forum! If you don't have to say more than "yes" or "lol", stick it somewhere, but spare us the bandwidth! You don't need to end it writing novels, but I and many others come here to learn something new rather than sift through endless pages of chat lingo...

    Thanks for listening...

    *steps off soapbox*

    Cheers!

    Sebastian"

    I can't say I've come across any "Pseudo-Companies" so i wouldn't know.

    Any ludicrously short posts I come across already get criticised. And they will continue to be as they pop up.

    Spelling isn't so important; it's only when content is messed up due to mis-spelling that questions ought to arise. Dyslexia is prevalent everywhere, so unless you want everyone to declare whether they're dyslexic, it's something that has to be lived with.


    And MariasRailfan, do we really need an example of a pointless post here?


    My message people, is cooperation; you tell us mods whenever someone's screwing up a thread, and we will sort it out as promptly as possible. Don't let yourself get involved in what is a waste of your time and ends up being a pain in the neck for everyone.

    PMing has never been easier, so use it!

    Thank you,

    Harley

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