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Thread: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    Nassjo, Sweden
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    Default Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    Am I the only one who has made this experience?

    Now and then this happens to me: when playing an activity for rather a long time, "my" train has to make a stop at a red signal because of an oncoming train.
    The oncoming train arrives, but comes to a halt prior to entering the expected siding.
    Then nothing helps: driving close to the signal, then going backwards - no! Waiting many minutes - no! Those two trains are just stuck there!

    This has happened with some activities and with some routes, freeware as well as payware routes!

    What have these situations in common?

    For all those "locked" situations I have started playing those activities for some shorter period, maybe half an hour or so. Then I have saved the situation and exited MSTS, sometimes even turned off the PC.

    Continuing the activity at some later occasion reveals nothing peculiar from the beginning. Everything seems to work well. (I might even meet some other train/s correctly!)

    But then, all of a sudden, this train-against-train situation appears and there is nothing to do but exiting the activity!

    ("Normally" the situation can occur when I have solve a situation in a wrong way, like picking up cars in a incorrect order or so, but this?
    And: it happens (not often) that an activity has got some flaw that might lead up to this situation.)

    So, for the best result: play the activity at one occasion - saving and coming back later might make you a victim of MSTS' revenge! :-)

    Or, has anyone a better explanation to come up with? If so, I will appreciate that!

    Haraldh F.


  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    It's one of those MSTS things. Sometimes you have to get to the meet point at just the proper moment...in other words, go like hell, right at the speed limit, for as much as you can (case in point, 3DTS Cajon route on a Barstow-Mojave activity -- I heard complaints, but I ran the heck out of my engines and got there before the AI eastbound did, and no problem at the meet point. 3DTS actually DID offer a fix-patch for the situation after this.)

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    Thanks for the input! That's a plausible argument!


    Recently this happened to me on the Stinky Creek route. After saving the activity I went back to it. I used the Logging Train activity and took the consist all the way up to Cheesman. I was ahead of the oncoming train. Then the oncoming train stopped ahead of the crossing!
    A couple from KHP2: The Winter Grain activity at WP 67. Ahead of the oncoming train. Stop and nothing happens!
    The CP311: at GAP - just the same!

    I can recall that this has happened earlier too with other routes: MP3.1 among others. But always after first having saved the activity!


    I still believe that MSTS gets something mixed up when trying to re-build every detail (position or whatever) in exactly the same way it was when the activity was saved!
    If something goes wrong with the re-building of the activity, the MSTS looks upon this as an error, and the activity needs to be ended!
    Mostly that means - a red signal somewhere!

    Just my own theory!

    If anyone can add more light upon this matter, I would be glad!

    Otherwise, I have better play the whole activity through at one occasion!

    Haraldh

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Germany.
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    434

    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    Hallo!
    Another reason for the red signals and even headon collisions can be that you rolled back a little bit after a stop some time before in the activity, and so made MSTS start the oncoming train. If you want to avoid this, especially in the mountains, first open the throttle to about 20% and then loosen your brakes.

    Keep on steamin'!
    Dietmar

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    DesMoines, Washington, USA.
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    >I still believe that MSTS gets something mixed up when trying
    >to re-build every detail (position or whatever) in exactly the
    >same way it was when the activity was saved!

    I find that in my own activities that these sorts of meets can bee avoided or at least minimized, by setting the player performance to some really low value -- I use 10%.

    My theory is that during an activity the AI not only keeps track of where you are, but where you should be as well, based on elapsed time, the path, and the player effeciency rating. When restore, the AI doesn't know where you "should" be anymore, it just knows where you were when the activity was saved.

    That's my theory.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    Thanks for the input!

    That theory sounds Ok, too!


    Haraldh

  7. #7
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    You cannot save in a siding while waiting on a meet, esp late in an activity on some routes. IIRC, there was a problem with this on Cascades. When you would open the save file, you would get a standoff, while if you let the AI train pass and then save, no problems.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    I usually saved a situation when driving along where nothing special was going on, i.e. no AI train in sight, no siding, nothing!!

    Then, after re-loading the saved situation, I could be driving for a long time before the red signal situation appeared!

    Not always, only sometimes!

    Still strange, I think!

    Thanks for all presented ideas!

    Haraldh

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Stony Plain, AB, CANADA
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    While developing the signals for Sea View I discovered that increasing the "NumClearAhead" variable in the signals config file can help avoid the Mexican Standoff situation that you describe.

    However doing this will change slightly how AI traffic behaves and may cause problems with timing of trains. (This effect could be good or bad depending on what the author of the activity intended.)

    (Note: Mess with signal config files at your own risk and always keep a backup.)

    GC

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    Nassjo, Sweden
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    Default RE: Saving a situation - sometimes a risk?

    I still believe, that this is all about how MSTS is acting in general and less depending on a single route.

    The explanation above in one of the messages that MSTS in certain situations will have problems trying to reconstruct all details involved in the saved situation, is close to what I have found out myself!

    Thanks to everyone for the inputs! I am totally satisfied with all the answers!
    Once again there has been a proof of how great the knowledge is among my fellow train-simmers!!!

    Haraldh

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