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Thread: Braking on Descending Grade

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia.
    Posts
    80

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    >>>That will get a kiss of the windscreen.
    >>
    >>Not necessarily. I'm talking about slight application
    >>of train brakes.
    >
    >If you are on a downhill grade with a long stretched train and
    >apply any air brake, you WILL smack the windscreen.
    >
    >The air brake works from the front to the back, so the front
    >of the train is braking before the back. When the unbraked
    >part hits the braked part <smack>.
    >

    Derek, I think he was talking about a minum brake application, i.e. dropping a few pounds, rather than applying the automatic brakes by, say 30 pounds, which will give you a severe run-in...if you're lucky.
    Any heads-up on this, anyone???

    EDIT: Corrected typos

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    397

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    >>>>That will get a kiss of the windscreen.
    >>>
    >>>Not necessarily. I'm talking about slight
    >application
    >>>of train brakes.
    >>
    >>If you are on a downhill grade with a long stretched train
    >and
    >>apply any air brake, you WILL smack the windscreen.
    >>
    >>The air brake works from the front to the back, so the front
    >>of the train is braking before the back. When the unbraked
    >>part hits the braked part <smack>.
    >>
    >
    >Derek, I think he was talking about a minum brake application,
    >i.e. dropping a few pounds, rather than applying the automatic
    >brakes by, say 30 pounds, which will give you a severe
    >run-in...if you're lucky.
    >Any heads-up on this, anyone???
    >
    >EDIT: Corrected typos

    Yes, "he" (aka me) is talking about a minimum reduction. When using standard valves on cars, the braking effect will be something like Derek said (locomotives brake first, then sequential brake application on following cars as the pressure drop progates along the train brake pipe line.

    Although pressure drop propagation is usually fairly quick, there is a slight difference (on slight or minimum brake applications) of braking effort between successive locomotives/cars. The net effect is that the train will tend to bunch-in, but because the cars are being progressively braked also, the rate of bunching will be kept low, and should not cause smacking (assuming equipment is functioning correctly).

    As I stated in my previous post, brake applications should be done gently (meaning slight or minimum application at one time).

    Trains are normally stopped on downhill grades by gradual application of train brakes.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia.
    Posts
    80

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    >>>>>That will get a kiss of the windscreen.
    >>>>
    >>>>Not necessarily. I'm talking about slight
    >>application
    >>>>of train brakes.
    >>>
    >>>If you are on a downhill grade with a long stretched train
    >>and
    >>>apply any air brake, you WILL smack the windscreen.
    >>>
    >>>The air brake works from the front to the back, so the
    >front
    >>>of the train is braking before the back. When the unbraked
    >>>part hits the braked part <smack>.
    >>>
    >>
    >>Derek, I think he was talking about a minum brake
    >application,
    >>i.e. dropping a few pounds, rather than applying the
    >automatic
    >>brakes by, say 30 pounds, which will give you a severe
    >>run-in...if you're lucky.
    >>Any heads-up on this, anyone???
    >>
    >>EDIT: Corrected typos
    >
    >Yes, "he" (aka me) is talking about a minimum
    >reduction. When using standard valves on cars, the braking
    >effect will be something like Derek said (locomotives brake
    >first, then sequential brake application on following cars as
    >the pressure drop progates along the train brake pipe line.
    >
    >Although pressure drop propagation is usually fairly quick,
    >there is a slight difference (on slight or minimum brake
    >applications) of braking effort between successive
    >locomotives/cars. The net effect is that the train will tend
    >to bunch-in, but because the cars are being progressively
    >braked also, the rate of bunching will be kept low, and should
    >not cause smacking (assuming equipment is functioning
    >correctly).
    >
    >As I stated in my previous post, brake applications should be
    >done gently (meaning slight or minimum application at one
    >time).
    >
    >Trains are normally stopped on downhill grades by
    >gradual application of train brakes.
    >


    PeterB, apologies to referring you as "he"; I was in a bit of rush when I typed that up and just had to post what was on my mind.

    Tonka

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    397

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    No problem!:-)

    I know what it's like; I've made similar quick replies in the past. Actually, I made quite a few spelling errors on my previous two posts owing to rushing to type what I'm thinking. But I think I picked up most (if not all) errors before posting! :+

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia.
    Posts
    80

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    >No problem!:-)
    >
    >I know what it's like; I've made similar quick replies in the
    >past. Actually, I made quite a few spelling errors on my
    >previous two posts owing to rushing to type what I'm thinking.
    >But I think I picked up most (if not all) errors before
    >posting! :+


    LOL
    We live and learn!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Wilmette, Illinois
    Posts
    127

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    To all those who responded to my question, many thanks! The various comments and perspectives are most welcome. Some fine ideas to experiment with. It just proves again how diverse and committed the train sim community is and how information and help is only a mouse click away.

    Thanks again....
    Barry

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA.
    Posts
    92

    Default RE: Braking on Descending Grade

    Glad to help. These instructions are from the Norfolk Southern's Rules for Equipment Operation and Handling form NS-1, rules L-208 & L-241.

    Richard Kimball

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