Repainting and stealing textures/ giving credit/ eula's

[Kenny1234]

>Thanks for your post Bill. It got to be too much for me to
>work on repaints while trying to "police" not only this site
>but the web in general, along with trying to launch my own 3D
>models and textures -and you wonder why I got out of the
>business.


I am sorry, but....

The people who believe that making "fancy game pieces" for an outdated computer program is some sort of worthwhile "business endeavor" are really living in a fantasy world of their own.

This should be about community helping others in the community, sharing the best of breed ideas and results. It shouldn't be about narcissism and credit-mongering and "you stole my textures!!"....

Most of the "starving artist" types who make a big deal about intellectual rights of their textures really need to grow up, move out of their parent's home, get an education, get a REAL job, take on REAL financial obligations, build a real professional career, and then learn how to sit down for a sim session or repainting project every once in awhile. Anybody who has mildly achieved a fraction of this already realizes there is no pot o' gold to be found at the end of the MSTS rainbow, regardless of artistic abilities.

Becoming a self-labeled CEO of a "MSTS texture repainting and route building business" while sitting in your bedroom in mom's house does not qualify as a realistic career move.

Talk about messed-up priorities.

I do give Mr. DadBill credit, tho. At least he realized it was a losing proposition early on. Thats more than I can say about alot of other "big names" in this so-called (cough) business. He didn't waste too much time sitting behind his fantasy desk in his fantasy office "policing" the MSTS websites looking for offenders.


Now if anybody replies and quotes part of my comments, please give me proper credit!!!!! You are not permitted to change the texture of my arguement, either. Thats my EULA. Got it?

[Kenny1234]

>I'm a "modifier" and "repainter" who is also frustrated by
>being unable to contact the original modelers and painters.
>I've found three invalid emails for one modeler, and three
>more for another. I've sent two or more emails to each of
>three others, all seeking permission to reuse for freeware
>upload. None has yet responded.
>
>I've looked for these folks in multiple forums--here,
>3DTrains, Elvas, etc. to no avail.



I suspect your experiences are quite typical. And its sad, too.

Unfortunately, the concept of investing time and creating MSTS things for the greater good of the entire comunity is a train that derailed a long, long, long time ago. The vandal which caused the wreck was known as "Ego". He used to hang out alot trackside with his pal, "Hubris". Both were uneducated, unemployed and living at home at the time.

[chucksc]

Do you have your mom's permission to post on here?

If you ever contributed ANYTHING I might take you seriously...

We've already withheld packages because of just this sort of whinging....

FWIW, the problem is not us (the original authors) it is the thieves who take someone else's work, claim it as their own and then sometimes even charge for it.... That is what started all the copyright lockdowns.... And it is not unique to MSTS...
Look at the Flightsimulator world....
Most of the old time guys over there went exclusively payware...

If you want to run your smart a$$ed mouth at some one, how about taking your butt over to "that other site" that prohibits new members that are affiliated with any of the old line groups and whine at the pirates that live over there and scoff at the stealing they actually do!

Sheesh! You've got some big brass ones on you to come in here with this line of krapola!

Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

[Kenny1234]

I am 42 years old, with 20 years in Corporate IT, 12 yrs in management, 5 yrs in exec management.

I have been a railfan all my life. Been working with Photoshop and similar tools for close to 10 years, purely from my railfan hobby perspective.

When I picked up MSTS as a $10 xmas stocking stuffer for my nephew, I figured I'd give it a spin. It was a neat product with some obvious technical issues, but it remains a product that has not, and never will, consume my life.

Within the last year, I discovered this site. Upon reading some of the threads here, I also stumbled upon many of the offshoot websites which have sprung up as a result of the intellectual hubris/payware fracturing of the MSTS scene.

The ability of the entire community to download a few nice cars and locos was what made this site so great. But that was when so many weren't so preoccupied with EULA infringement nonsense.

I agree with you that people should not be taking the textures of other people and selling them, but ask yourself why they feel its profitable to do so. They only do it because a select few looked past the community betterment model and set the payware machine in motion. They only do it because it is PERCEIVED that there is something worthwhile at the end of the rainbow, or they are attention mongers who want the recognition within the MSTS community. These are the people who have lost the sense of personal balance of what MSTS should be.

When I first started pulling add-ons down from this site, the whole loco and car creation process was unknown to me. But since then, I have been able to leverage my IT skills with the Photoshop skills, and the process is plainly de-mystified now. I can crank whole fleets of cars out in a handful of hours on a typical weekend, all in about the time it takes the wife and family to run off to the mall or some such place. I do share some of my work on another site, and I wouldn't mind sharing more, but the reasons holding that up are discussed a few paragraphs below.

I have come to the conclusion that many people who made add-ons very early on enjoyed the attention of the situation a bit when they sorta had an intellectual monopoly on the process. Once the process was de-mystified to many people (like me) who had ample skills and a reasonable piece of software to work with (there are many downloads which you can tell were processed by a person who doesn't have high end software or who really hasn't mastered the software they have yet), then these same people looked for ways to "exclusive-ize" themselves all over again, and the EULA is key to maintaing their edge. I think its a piece of a persons inner psychology where the average human who once stood out among a crowd wants to stand out again.

Venturing onto these other websites, I often see lots of "teaser" photos but very little in the form of downloadable product. You know, websites with lots of rules, lots of opinions, lots of photos which put drooling MSTS users at the edge of their seats, but total vaporware. Knowing how easy the process is to create cars and locos, and the volume which someone like myself can crank out on a typical rainy Saturday, I am left to wonder why the nonsense behavior out of so many of these website proprietors. Get your stuff out there for people to enjoy (without strings), or take down your "look at me!" website. If you are closed-minded and are so concerned with theft of IP, then stop advertising product if you are so indecisive about releasing it, and then ride off into the sunset. I'll pay for your bus ticket.

Case in point: One particular website run by a group of people who made some damn fine rolling stock. They recently went through some changes in their roster (these "virtual companies" are more like high school cliques, really, with typical infighting), one of the co-founders (now a 17 year old kid) posted a request for resumes for new people to join the group. I just sat there and shook my head in disbelief at the idea that a kid who is not old enough to vote or hold a credit card in his name is soliciting resumes to review and decide upon. Contrast that to people like me, who have been working with photoshop since this kid was 7, when the highlight of his day was watching Scooby-Doo reruns on after-school television. The world of MSTS is off its rocker.

With the changes happening at this group, new releases have tapered off recently (maybe one in the past 6 months). Getting tired of visiting their website-without-product (as I'm sure others were, too), I offered up some of my reskins that I did of "their" products. Out of sheer embarrassment regarding their slow pace of releases, a few of my skins were indeed introduced as downloads on their site. Lately, tho, they have been slow to release any more. I believe I sorta beat them to the punch regarding certain liveries, making skins in various reporting marks that they themselves had planned to do – but never got around to doing. Hey, that's understandable, what with all the "interviewing" they have been busy doing (rolling my eyes). The end result: product is withheld from the community on account of this group's selfish reasons. They don't have product to distribute, but then they sit on the results of others who do.

I work 50 hours a week at my job, come home to kids/kid's homework/honey-do's, and then I sit down at the computer for an hour or two. Unlike some, MSTS is not central to my entire day. I just want decent, FREE/OPENLY SHARED add-on product available to the entire community without all the strings, egos, payware politics, EULAs, and 17-year-old fantasies. It's not that much to ask for. Really. And people like me have done their part. But nonsense keeps the work from being freely shared.

Big brass ones? You ain't seen nothing yet.

[mword77]

Interesting. Best read I've had in here in months... :-)

[TexasWestern70Mac]

WHAT in the hell happened here?!

Kenny1234... we who originally create stuff dont want our repaints stolen and knocked off as thier's without credit given as chuck mentioned its called COMMON COURTSEY. i may be only 22 but since when did knocking off someone else's textures and calling them your own be considered OK or in some cases even LEGAL? i see your point, but if your repaints are 100% your own, why are you complaining in the first place? READ the topic at hand before spouting off next time and STAY ON TOPIC!

AND FWIW this is coming from someone who has 0 intent to go payware at all. this subject derailed into payware bashing.... LOCKED!

Bill Hemb; train sim repainter