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Thread: Bin Distance Counter.

  1. #1

    Default Bin Distance Counter.

    In MSTSBin's F5+3 display there is a resettable distance and time counter. ( Ctrl+NumPad6 resets the counters.)

    Last night I was laying out a loooong trestle section, over 5 miles of wood trestle. I placed the 100 meter wood trestle sections along side of the rail line in preparation to lining them up with Object Rotator. Well it was late and I decided to rotate the objects the next day. I decided to just run a train over the just completed tracks, just to see how things looked.
    As I ran the train I could of course see the trestle sections I had just placed next to the line every 100 meters.
    Counting 10 trestle sections should equal 1 kilometer but according to the Bin-O-Meter I had only travelled about 780 meters.

    I thought I had probably inaccuratly placed a trestle or two or had messed up the count somehow so I went back into the RE and made sure the placement was correct. It was.
    Re-testing still showed for every actual kilometer travelled the Bin-O-Meter recorded 780 meters, plus/or minus 2 meters. This is not good! Every kilometer by the meter is 220 meters short!

    This testing was done over several accuratly layed out distances using actual track lengths, all 100m sections, 10 sections to 1 kilometer. Because of this discrepency and my relying on the Bin-O-Meter counter I fear I will have redo part of the line and relocate several stations, not really a big deal at this stage but somewhat of a pain, none the less.

    Has anyone noticed this apparent distance error with the Bin counter?

    I'm considering temporarly placing a station marker at track end and checking the counter against that but I really don't like placing an interactive object at this stage of building. I will report back test results here.


    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  2. #2

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    Hi Vince !

    Did not know that George has already implemented my suggestion of giving us a display of something like a resettable trip meter for distances traveled, like we have in motor cars and was hoping to get a digital read-out somewhere in the cab consoles ! ;-)

    I wonder how it measures the distance, adding together the lengths of tracks traveled on, locos wheel revolutions, converting their diameter into circumference and adding it together, subtracting some again if reversing ?

    Let us know your test results. Could be something to be added to the TO-DO list I am saving for later when George has got time to look at it !

    Take care, O t t o.

  3. #3

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    Just finished testing.
    I used three different engines;

    Engine-----------------------------F10 Dist------Bin-O-Meter Dist----
    NALW MP54---------------------->2.0Km------------->1.575
    Default Acela--------------------->2.0Km------------->1.569
    PRR K4--------------------------->2.0Km------------->1.572
    PRR K4 modified WheelRadius---->2.0Km------------->1.573
    For the modified K4 I set the wheel radius to 0.1
    Looked like the wheels were turning at 100 mph but as you can see
    from the test results Bin is not picking up distance from wheel rotation.
    Distance to/from a node probably not it either because the
    Sim does that, almost correctly too (witness the 'Cutbank Syndrome')
    but if it were off as bad is this is trains would explode at Cutbank instead of jerking around and busting a few couplers. :+

    Maybe calculating from longditude and latitude? That's not trivial to do either and mistakes can creep in, producing just the kind of results I see here. It's not easy to do this stuff.

    For now, per these test results, the Bin meter reads too short by almost 30 percent.
    As to why, I don't have a clue but for now, I will have to stop using what was a very handy way to lay out locations on a route.


    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA.
    Posts
    3,376

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    This may be an error due to the default use of the Goode-Homosline projection that moved DEM data into MSTS.

    If you don't know, this projection method takes a square shaped cut of dem data and distorts it into a diamond. The square tile lines are then superimposed over portions of the diamond, moving some terrain into another tile. What this means is practical terms is anything in reality that was at N/S to E/W right angles to another feature is now twisted into a different angle -- that's why you can set out markers for streets that are 90d angles but the markers get moved inside MSTS and things don't line up as they should. On my route, that new angle is 79d. Each route will have a unique value based on how far north of the equater it lies.

    It also means latitude and longitude, as reported by the SIM, are either different from reality -- OR mathemnatically adjusted to compensate for the distortion.

    In the western hemisphere the distortion moves objects that lie on a true East/West line into a Northeast/Southwest line, lengthening the distance between the two. It's like something has been moved from a leg of a triangle to the hypotenuse. It has to be longer.

    Because a 100m straight track is always going to 100m and the revolution of a wheel is always going to be it's circumfrence you'll get a true measurement off those things. But the distance between City A and City B in your route is always going to be different in MSTS as compared to reality -- that is unless they're on exact north south lines.

    Now the open question in my mind is whether the original MSTS code compensates in any way for this distortion when it reports distances to you. I dunno.

    But as you report, 220m is a lot of difference.

    [b]Dave Nelson
    SLW Route Design: The Cal-P, 1950.[b]
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...cing_Genma.gif
    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...s/4ad3d633.jpg

  5. #5

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    Yes, guys, that looks like a chestnut I would not want to get out of the fire ! ;-)

    Will have to wait until George has got some time to spare to have a look into this and in the meantime will file Vince's report in my GEORGE-TO-DO.doc !

    Take care, O t t o.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    ny, usa.
    Posts
    532

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    This just occured to me, I haven't done the math...
    Are you sure the bin-o-meter is reading kilometers and not miles?


    Lloyd

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Bristol, Connecticut, US.
    Posts
    1,125

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    Have a sparkling day,
    Bob


    [SIGPIC]https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/signaturepics/sigpic56455_1.gif/[SIGPIC]

  8. #8

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    Hi Vince !

    I did not check this until just now and can not see a resettable distance and time counter in part 3 of the MSTSBin 1.7.0224 F5-HUD running my DASH-9 !

    O t t o



  9. #9

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    It's there OttO!

    Look at right side;

    Boiler elevation: 0.000
    Meter: 0 m 34 s <======[ This distance and time
    Ctrl+NumPad 6 resets both distance (m) and time (s)
    This has been active in Bin since 1.6
    I assume the (m) in the distance means meters. I am building the LIRR using meters but will of course have standard Mile posts installed for release. Why? Well it's just easier as the RE talks metric.

    There are a few other Ctrl+NumPad hotkeys that do other interesting things too. They are all listed in the file Manual_eng.doc on page 13.
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  10. #10

    Default RE: Bin Distance Counter.

    Hi Vince !

    My Torture Test route I made for Bill Prieger and then added mile post to it for a member, placing them at .05 miles intervals was handy for testing this meter, which I think stands for "Measuring Device" and not "metres" ?

    1 mile = 1609 metres and used 2 x 40 metres straights = 80 metres, placing mile posts at their 80 metres joints with the next 2 x 40 metres pair.

    20 of these 80 metres sections add up to 1600 metres, close enough to the 1609 for a mile ! ;-)

    Here I am stationary at the [/b]0[/b] mile post and having reset the meter, s values start increasing while standing still, which I think measures seconds:



    Having reached the 1 mile post = 1600 metres the m value shows this:



    I think this "meter" is measuring minutes and seconds of map coordinates:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geograp...ate_conversion

    Somebody might be able to enlighten us how this is done, measuring the distance between coordinates, "as the crow flies" or some other way ? ;-)

    Take care, O t t o.

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