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Thread: Metro North or LIRR M-1

  1. #51

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    Adding to Kurts rant.. If I were demanded by alot of people to make a certain soundset.. I would consider it. But! I wouldn't rush it. I'd take my pretty little time and ignore the bitchy people that have recently joined our community. That's what I've managed to do while half of the other gimmie pigs were out of school this summer. Looks like there's still a few out here.

  2. #52
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    And taking this a little further, remember that this is a hobby, not a job. That means it's something you should enjoy doing. That in turn means working on the stuff which interests you personally. Too many here assume 3D modelers simply enjoy 3D modeling, and are willing to tackle anything so long as it keeps them busy. Perhaps that's the case for some, but the majority I'd say like to work on stuff which interests them personally also. If it happens to be stuff which many others want, wonderful. But that's not always the case. I'm grateful for whatever people here choose to make. Sure, I'd like to see an M1, M2, M3, M4, M7, and M8. I'd like to see the entire NYC subway fleet. I'd like to see the Arrow I, II, and III. I'd like to see the Comet Vs and also the NJT bilevels. If even half this stuff ever gets done I'd be thrilled. I'd even make it myself except between my carpal tunnel syndrome and my so far half-hearted attempts at learning 3D modeling myself I probably wouldn't get very far. I certainly couldn't see myself ever approaching the standards set by Steve's Silverliners or Kurt's Comets. So I'm happy to take what I can get, help out in the areas I can, and not pester people for 100 new projects every time they start a thread on their latest work.

  3. #53

    Angry Serously!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TrirailF40PHL View Post
    I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and $hit out an argument better then that.

    Except for the few builders who occasionally solicit ideas from the outside, the majority of 3D creators build what they wish to build - not what some forum nag tells them to build. Petitioning modelers to create something is nothing more then a thinly veiled attempt at turning gimme-pig requests into something that would appear to be politically correct.

    -Kurt
    Ok one i hate soup. 2 fine ok maybe he shouldnt asked for that BUT doesnt give any the right to call anyone anything period. Like the guy sayed ignore them ok it wont kill you. I been for a little while and what ive seen past all the good effort is arguing. For Christ sake theres more threads closed because of what?! Of your bicking and arguing. Trainz forums is more polite. All i want (not no damn demand or daft) respect each other not being nice just respect. Last time check its msts community. Ok back 2 topic.

  4. #54
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    Did any of you guys know that Applesauce, NOT ice cream is really good for your throat after having your tonsils out? I just found that out.

    Everyone just take one step back and have a breath, it's OK, really!

    It's difficult for the folks who have never created an MSTS addon - particularly an MU or cab car, which, if I'm not mistaken, include everything (cab, interior, exterior model, sounds, .ENG file/physics etc). Maybe doing a steamer is more difficult, I don't know. But what I'm trying to say is that is boils down to a LOT of work, and even if I wanted to work on more projects, I don't think I could. Jeez, when I started the Silverliners, I thought I could finish the entire thing up in a month or two. I started the original work last November and didn't release them until, what, May? So if you go by that, the Silverliner IIIs should take until at least January, the Arrow Is, May, the Metroliners October, Silverliner IVs January 2010 (hey isn't MSTS-X supposed to be out by then?)

    Sure, I'm interested in the M-1 model, I wouldn't have bought the manual and started the thread if I wasn't. I'd like to see everything Joe listed too, even if some aren't my favorite pieces of equipment.

    So here's the challenge I'll lay down there. If anyone wants to see some equipment that's not all ready here, or that you KNOW is in work, why don't you get Train Sim Modeler, 3D Canvas, or GMax (which seem to be the common modeling packages used for MSTS) and give creating the equipment you want a try?

    Train Sim Modeler - $39 - not the easiest 3D modeler to use, even though I'm using it
    http://www.trainsimulatorworld.com/tsm/tsmmain.htm
    3D Canvas - 3D Canvas Plus is $34.95, plain old 3D Canvas is free (but very limited)
    http://www.amabilis.com/products.htm
    GMax - Free - this is just the first place I found where you could download it - Autodesk no longer offers or supports it
    http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax

    You will find that you also need image editing/creation software for textures, like Paint Shop Pro (which is what I use) at $99.99:
    http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satelli...0&tabview=tab0
    But I'm sure you can find other good programs cheaper, ask around

    Also for sounds, I use GoldWave, $39 (for the registered version, the unregistered one is limited):
    http://www.goldwave.com/

    Plus a host of MSTS and modeling utilities you can get on Train-sim or some of the other popular sites like: http://steam4me.railpage.org.au/trainsim/
    Shape Viewer
    Shape File Manager
    ConText Editor
    AceIt
    TGATool2a
    Just to name a few

    Here's the offer I'll make: I promise not to laugh at anyone's honest attempts. I promise to offer assistance if can (I've been 3D modeling since 1994, albeit with higher end CAD systems, but I have plenty of experience there). I promise to answer the same dumb questions 20 times, with patience (I also used to train younger engineers on CAD, so I understand). I promise to encourage younger or less experienced modelers to create the things they enjoy.

    Don't be intimidated by what you see myself, Kurt, and others doing, you CAN do it if you work at it. Just like anything that's really cool, it takes a lot of work, it can be hard, and frustrating at times.

    Anyone want to take me up on the challenge? If so, after you get started, I'll gladly send over the TSM M-1 shape I started and you can play with it to your hearts content.

    Steve
    Last edited by mestevet; 10-16-2008 at 08:46 AM.

  5. #55
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    Joe, et. al.

    Do you know what the operational top speed of the M-1s (and the other MNRR/LIRR equipment) is? What I mean is, the book top speed is 100mph, but how fast do they operate between certain stops?

    For instance, we discussed the Silverliners top speed of 85ish, but in practice, with the SLIIs, I've only seen them as high as about 67mph on the R2 (NEC).

    Just curious.

    Steve

  6. #56
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    Steve,
    I can tell you that M-1s (When they were in service) do operate between stations at 70-80mph. It may feel faster because some were so old and raggedy. But that is the way I liked them. The ATO kicks in on certain locations were speeds are slower.

    Shawn
    Last edited by fishbowl_5227; 10-16-2008 at 12:30 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishbowl_5227 View Post
    Steve,
    I can tell you that M-1s (When they were in service) do operate between stations at 70-80mph. It may fell faster because some were so old and raggedy. But that is the way I liked them. The ATO kicks in on certain locations were speeds are slower.

    Shawn
    The reason I'm asking is that the accelerations given for the M-1 in the manual remind me a lot of the Silverliners. So if we assumed that the accleration was the same, then it should take the same amount of time/distance (track conditions being equal) to reach a certain speed. If they can only accerate up to the proper point where they need to start braking, then that clearly limits the top operating speed between stations.

    So I wonder, with little to no knowledge about this - are the MNRR or LIRR stations spaced further apart than those on say SEPTA? where for instance Mainline (R5) stations are about a mile apart. I mean, otherwise, the extra top speed wouldn't be very useful.

    Steve

  8. #58
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    On much of the LIRR, the stations are pretty closely-spaced, perhaps 1 to 2 miles, but as you go further out on the island the station spacing can be larger, and that's where the 80 mph comes into play. However, outside of a few limited stop expresses, there are few trains on the LIRR which would greatly benefit from 100 mph (hence the reason for limiting them to 80 to keep maintenance costs down). Also, in the City terminal zone (i.e. in NYC limits), the trains often stop at Jamaica and then proceed straight to Penn Station (a few stop in Forest Hills or Woodside). That basically means a run of about 8 miles nonstop, mostly on a fairly straight four-track mainline. I sometimes watch the LIRR at the Forest Hills station (about 3 miles from me). Most trains come through at 60 to 70, but you occasionally see some at 80. About 20 years ago there was an anamoly going eastbound where the driver could effectively cut out ATO. I used to see M1s/M3s occasionally come through at well in excess of 80. A few looked like they were pushing 100. The problem was fixed over ten years ago. So to answer your question, officially the M1s never ran at more than 80, but in practice in that one area they did open them up, and likely even exceeded 100 at times. But I'll bet they needed four or five miles to reach that kind of speed. Officially, the schedules can be maintained by running at only 60 mph, so 80 mph I'd guess is mainly used to make up time.

    Yes, I'd say offhand the acceleration in full of the M1s is probably similar to that of the Silverliners, although the top speeds in the lower notches is different due to a completely different control system. In P1 especially (full parallel) the M1s would go much faster than the ~15 mph Silverliners do in their first (switching) notch.

  9. #59
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    Here's a post on railroad.net referring to what I was talking about regarding the anamoly I mentioned in my previous post. Another thread talking about the same thing.

  10. #60
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    That was interesting reading. It's always interesting to hear about a "failure" that results not in a more restrictive mode of operation (what I'd call fail safe), but a less restrictive one.

    It also reminds me of a situation when I was working as an engineer and using a CAD system back in the '90's. We had a release program that we ran when we wanted to promote a model and engineering drawing package to "release" it. The program had a quirk that I'd found though, and that was if you crashed out of it, it would leave you with system administrator priviledges on your work station. This was a very flaky program and we constantly battled with the IT department about it. However, I never seemed to have problems with it after that

    I can just imagine the first driver to realize that he could beat the Automatic Speed Control, probably thought he was nuts. Probably told his best buddies over a beer later that night and they tried it out the next day.

    Steve

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