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Thread: Metro North or LIRR M-1

  1. #1
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    Default Metro North or LIRR M-1

    I'm curious as to whether anyone has ever completed any legitimate models of an M-1 (LIRR or Metro North) commuter car. I read an earlier thread ( https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?t=245606 ) describing a ripoff of Alex Stroshane's uncompleted work, but it was unclear to me if there has ever been a legitimate M-1 offered anywhere (didn't find one in the file library here).

    The reason I'm asking is that I just came into possession of an M-1 operator's manual that has some very nice diagrams and operational information on the cars. While I have a LOT of projects that I'm intent on tackling myself, an M-1 is not currently one of my priorities. However, I'd be happy to share any of the information I have with anyone who is interested in producing an M-1 car.

    Steve

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    Hey Steve,
    I got my a$$ handed to me when I posted some Screen shots of LIRR M-1's ..That is a sticky subject because as you read some Pirate guy offered the cars and all hell broke lose.Those are my favorite cars also ..I hope someone take on that project someday..If you think the Silverliner II are nice to ride..M-1's fall into that same category. Very fast and so much more..

    Shawn

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    I know next to nothing about the M-1s, either in MSTS or in the real world, aside from what I've just been reading in the operators manual and what probably every other railfan in North America is generally aware of. I just had the chance to pick it up cheap (I'm still on the lookout for a Silverliner II or III manual).

    I thought that other thread brought a couple of people out of the weeds who might've been working on an M-1 car (at least one was probably one of the "pirates").

    Anyway, I suppose it's a moot point as there's not much in the way of a route to run those cars on. Still, if anyone's interested in an honest, original model of one, my offer of help stands.

    Steve

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    Any M-1 that were downloaded in the past Alex had asked that they be deleted but if any are still around, I'd use them for pivate use only. It would probably be best if the subject never came up again unless someone else modeled a new set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain82 View Post
    It would probably be best if the subject never came up again unless someone else modeled a new set.
    Well, that's the $64,000 question - has anyone modeled a new set? Or is Alex still out there with his cars and is willing to legitimately release them? That's why I specifically said "legitimate models of an M-1" and "an honest, original model of one"

    I guess I just don't get why if there seems to be a controversy over some piece of equipment around here, it all of a sudden becomes taboo to mention that equipment ever again. I understand the hurt people feel about stolen work, etc. But for something to be off limits for discussion just because one jerk (or one set of jerks, whatever the case may be) claimed some good work as their own seems a bit childish to me.

    I'm not looking for a flame war, I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just sad that an innocent offer to share information that might get another model out there going, could get lost because of some jerk who pirated equipment in the past.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by mestevet View Post
    Or is Alex still out there with his cars and is willing to legitimately release them?
    I do recall that Alex did once express interest in releasing them properly, IF he could source out the remainder of the work to someone reputable. I do not know if he meant cabview/sounds, or was also referring to 3D shape tweaks.

    Mind you though, Alex was not as busy as he is now when he made that comment a few years ago, and I dare say - though I am making a complete guess here - that he is probably too busy to become involved with the completion of them once again.

    -Kurt

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    Part of the reason I was interested in the M-1 manual in the first place is that I got a chance to tour the new Silverliner V the other day when I took my son in to Philadelphia (they have it on display on the 0 Track at Suburban Station until October 16). I've noticed the external similarity to the M-1 and subsequent cars, but after looking inside, it appears there are other similarities as well (although clearly it's a unique car).

    Mind you, my own list of priorities still stands, but I'm a big fan of seeing good equipment of all sorts in the sim. I think the LIRR, Metro North, ConnDot and NH, and NYC fans have gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to equipment and routes (this from a Pennsy fan). I know in the real 3D model railroad world, those are very popular.

    Is anyone out there even interested in an M-1 or it's brethren? or were those fans shooed off long ago by the lack of equipment and routes?

    Steve

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    If I recall Alex didn't officially release the M1/M3 because he wasn't entirely happy with it. Unfortunately, someone else who somehow managed to get a hold of them put them in the file library (after which Nels promptly removed them). Not sure how this person acquired them but if they were a beta tester then they violated one of the most sacred oaths of trust in the train-sim world. But anyway, thanks to "bluebeard" and his gang on the Black Pearl (as Chuck likes to call them), that was pretty much the end of Alex's very nice M1/M3.

    I really do hope someone will do a legitimate one (and eventually an M7 as well) because there are indeed a lot of fans of them (to me the LIRR is synonomous with the M1/M3). I've already done some work with the .eng files but I probably need more data to nail it. And I have TE curves for the M7 in case anyone does those.
    Last edited by jtr1962; 10-11-2008 at 11:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    I really do hope someone will do a legitimate one (and eventually an M7 as well) because there are indeed a lot of fans of them (to me the LIRR is synonomous with the M1/M3). I've already done some work with the .eng files but I probably need more data to nail it. And I have TE curves for the M7 in case anyone does those.
    Joe,

    Would any of these numbers help with the physics? From the operator's manual:

    "Power positions on the controller produce various combinations of acceleration and speed. The initial acceleration rates are as follows:
    P-1 0.8 mph per second
    P-2 1.5 mph per second
    P-3 and P-4 2.0 mph per second

    The braking range will offer a continuous selection or rates up to a programmed maximum performance rate of 1.9 mph per second at 100 mph increasing to 3.0 mph per second at 50 mph. The 3.0 mph per second rate will hold until stopped."

    The accelerations sound remarkably similar to the Silverliner II/III. The M-1s obviously had dynamic brakes (and I have a pretty good description of the controller from the manual). Those braking rates are really good information to have, I wish I had those for the Silverliners too.

    Steve

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    Those numbers definitely help a lot Steve! Thanks! The only thing really missing are the maximum speeds which can be obtained in P1, P2, and P3. Also of note is that the LIRR eventually modified the M1s and M3s and got rid of the P2/P3 acceleration rates. The reason was the current demands of up to 12-car trains in P3 and P4. Remember that these operate on 750VDC third rail. A 12-car train in P3 or P4 can pull more than 10,000 amps from the third rail IIRC. They did something similar with the M7s which involved reprogramming the inverter drive computers. The M7s used to start off at >2 mphps. Now they're around 1.0 mphps.

    The variable braking rates should be fairly easy to do in MSTS also. Basically I would use a blended brake, set the MaxBrakeForce to a token amount, and then adjust the dynamic brake curve so I end up with 1.9 mphps deceleration at 100 mph, increasing as speed drops to 3.0 mphps at 50 mph.

    Now for someone to actually make these.....

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