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Thread: Long Train Scenario in RW

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Georgia, US
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    Default Long Train Scenario in RW

    I am in the process of creating a scenario on the Barstow-San Bernardino route. It involves a coal train with 4 engines and 66 full coal (red).

    My problem is this. I have the engines separate from the cars. I reverse and couple to the first set of cars, about 20. I then couple to the second set of cars, about 40. As soon as I do this the frame rate drops to 14 (the minimum RW shows). The time starts ticking slower so that each minute in the game now takes between 1.5 and 2 minutes in real time.

    I don't believe this is a graphics issue per se but something is happening when I couple to the second consist.

    I created a new route from the default.
    I added the KUJU US assets.
    I layed down a few miles of San Bar Main
    I open the free roam scenario and I have frame rates of 120plus.
    I add 50 red coal gondolas and the frame rate changes depending on where I look. At the consists somewhere around 30 to 40 fps.
    I add 50 more red coal gondolas. Frame rates stay about the same.
    I add 1 ES44AC engines not connected to anything. No change
    I place the engine on the front of the train. No significant change.
    I add a driver to the engine. No change.
    I go into the scenario and select the engine and jump in the cab. Frame rates go to 14 and stay.
    I exit out and completely leave the game and come back.
    External of the cab the frame rates seem good.
    Jump in to the cab. Frame rates go to 14 and stay.
    Use the 8 key to see what happens outside the train. Frames at 14.
    Start driving the train. FPS 14
    Disconnect the engine from the cars again to see and get into the cab. Frames at 14.
    Start driving the engine and the frame rates go to normal.
    Try it again. Hook the engine up to the cars and get in the cab. FPS 14.
    Disconnect engine and get in the cab. Normal Frames. (different result that the first time I did this, they changed without me driving this time)

    Up until now everything was done with scenario editing.

    What happens in the game?
    Hop into the engine to drive it while not connected to consist. Good FPS.
    Back up and couple to the consists and the frame rates drop to 14 when I start getting close but before I couple and stay that way after I couple.

    Uncouple and move forwards. FPS stays at 14 even though I'm only driving the engine now.

    Restart Scenario.

    Try it again... This time I don't couple to the cars I just get close enough for the frame rates to drop to 14 and pull forward. FPS goes to normal.

    Hmmm... Couple then uncouple without ever moving forward. FPS stays at 14. Maybe they would change if I coupled to another consists but that's for another day.

    Can anyone out there make a train longer than 80 cars in RW that works without frames dropping ridiculously low when you go to drive it? Please let me know how so I can create a good scenario that doesn't take 4 hours to run because each minute in the game now takes 2 in real time.

    Thanks.

    Pikehkr
    Last edited by pikehkr; 07-10-2009 at 12:35 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Below are some screenshots of a very long train running out of the RW Freeroam OTTO-CAJON's Barstow-East yard.

    As you said, 14 FpS is the lowest RW will show you.

    Also does not like AI trains longer than 20s and meeting one of the many running in the CAJON-OTTO causes them to drop to 14 FpS most of the time, depending how much is displayed in the scenery.

    O t t o














  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA.
    Posts
    14,705

    Talking System Specs!

    Kinda like this:

    OS: Windows XP Media (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)
    Model: Dell DXP051
    CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz (2 CPUs)
    Memory: 2046MB RAM
    DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

    Video: Radeon X550 256.0 MB
    ATI Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6925


    In a test route with six sections of straight track, no other scenery, 17 freight cars with no engines in the scenario, I got something similar - 14FPS indicated which was a flaming lie, it was really more like one frame every 5 to 10 seconds. Not knowing the system specs we can only guess, the way I fixed mine was START, CONTROL PANEL, ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS, SERVICES, and I disabled ATI hotkeys and ATI smart and rebooted. ATI is real obnoxious about wanting to turn everything on again so I gotta check that periodically, same route same scenario afterwards 56FPS and smooth as Canadian whiskey. Obviously if you have an Nvidia card that wouldn't apply to you, so post them system specs!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
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    Default Thanks

    Thanks for the comments although I'm not sure I see the relationship between 17 cars and 100 cars.

    Everything I am seeing seems to lead me in the direction that common US freight train lengths are just not possible in the sim without serious delays in all aspects of the game.

    It just bogs down to a crawl. I personally don't put much weight on the FPS but I can definitely see the stutter and tell that there is a major slow down in the timing in the game. The keyboard response slows down also. I find myself having to hit the keys 2 or 3 times before it registers.

    I am guessing this is because of the continuous calculations required for each car and you just reach a point where it just becomes too much. Seems kind of odd with the power of the pc today but I guess it is possible.

    Anyway. I will continue making my scenario and I will be seeking a beta tester here to see if it will run on someone elses pc shortly and get their input.

    Thanks again.

    Pikehkr

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
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    Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA.
    Posts
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    Talking Distant cousins

    No relationship between 17 cars and 100 cars, the relationship is what does it take to choke the game? The actual number depends on what kind of computer you have and what else might be interfering with allowing the game to run smoothly. In that case I had 17 cars and the game choked on it, it's easy to say "what a buggy piece of junk, them Kuju programmers couldn't set a watch to the correct time given best of three tries!!" I'm one of their longest and loudest critics, but also fair minded - you can't just assume it was them who screwed up, gotta investigate other possible causes. In that particular case it turned out to be them brats at ATI with their memory hogging hotkey poller designed to make it easy for kids with short attention spans to change their graphic settings every 2 1/2 minutes, and then programming it so it autoloads into memory on startup without letting you know it's doing that.

    My system is a fairly old one with a cruddy video card, so more than 50 cars on a train don't work very well for me, it probably runs better on a better system. What's the actual limit who knows, again it depends on how good your computer is, and what else you have running at the same time that might be shoving the game out of the way to get at a block of memory. So set to run in a window and set the taskbar for always on top, bring up the task manager and launch the game.



    Here I got over a dozen kernels of RS_Tools loaded, little glitch I get that Mike hasn't been able to duplicate yet. Starting RS_Tools from the shortcut and then exiting without editing unloads them all, but for this test I'll leave them in there. They're not using system resources other than memory, note Railsim is using 46% of the CPU, RDMWII.exe is using 2%. 160 some odd cars in this yard, on my system that does cause a little stuttering.



    Hit the performance tab to see what else is going on, when I look away from the yard it smooths out. Note in that view it's using 72% of the CPU and has only 477 megs of RAM still free.




    There's a 100 car train, it DOES stutter a little, but it's not choking on it when that unholy ATI hotkey poller isn't interfering with what the game is trying to do.

    Again, can't suggest possible fixes without knowing your system specs, if you have an Nvidia card obviously the ATI hotkey poller is not your problem. But do you have the latest drivers for whatever card you have? What do you have the graphics set for, performance, quality, balance? Other issues what else is running?

    "Seems kind of odd with the power of the pc today but I guess it is possible."

    There's the tricky part, if your system is powerful enough you may not notice assorted spyware, adware, viruses, fragmented hard drive or corrupted registry because it's powerful enough to tolerate a lot of junk slowing it down until you try to push the limits. Run a virus scan, defrag the hard drive, get rid of anything like Instant Messenger or Amazon.com shopping toolbars, see what it runs like unfettered.
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  6. #6

    Default

    Here are some real frame rates, displayed by Fraps in the top-left corner of the pictures.

    This Freeroam player starts at San Bernardino East and meets the first of many AI services, all their lengths I had to keep to about 20 wagons, this having been discussed in a RS thread a long time ago.

    Despite these low frame rates there is no noticeable stuttering that my old eyes are aware of.

    O t t o








  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Clifton Park, NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OTTODAD View Post
    Here are some real frame rates, displayed by Fraps in the top-left corner of the pictures.

    This Freeroam player starts at San Bernardino East and meets the first of many AI services, all their lengths I had to keep to about 20 wagons, this having been discussed in a RS thread a long time ago.

    Despite these low frame rates there is no noticeable stuttering that my old eyes are aware of.

    O t t o










    I can see systems with weak specs getting low frame rates with a lot of consists/AI traffic in a yard, but why are your frames so low (13fps) in the cab leaving San Bernardino with no AI?

    “No noticeable stuttering”, how are you not, that’s a slide show?

    What do you get with the default “Arriving East” scenario?

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by djt1 View Post
    I can see systems with weak specs getting low frame rates with a lot of consists/AI traffic in a yard, but why are your frames so low (13fps) in the cab leaving San Bernardino with no AI?
    No idea. Driving a rather long train and the graphics taking a long time to recover after the AI meet and displaying all these buildings in the background ?

    “No noticeable stuttering”, how are you not, that’s a slide show?
    Not to my old eyes, your's being used to silky smooth games displays, showing more detail ?

    What do you get with the default “Arriving East” scenario?
    Shown below.

    O t t o













  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Clifton Park, NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OTTODAD View Post
    No idea. Driving a rather long train and the graphics taking a long time to recover after the AI meet and displaying all these buildings in the background ?



    Not to my old eyes, your's being used to silky smooth games displays, showing more detail ?



    Shown below.

    O t t o

    What are your settings in the Catalyst Control Panel?

    Do you have “Wait for vertical refresh” with the slider on “Quality”? If so try setting it on “Performance”.


    By the way what are the exact specs of the machine?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
    561

    Default Long trains

    In Arriving East as I sit there in my cab looking forward at the very beginning and not moving my fps is 29. An AI train approaches after about a minute and my fps drops to 26 and then goes back up after he passes.

    As for my pc. It is an intel pentium D 2.8 Ghz. 3.0 GB Ram using and NVidia 9400GT Video card.

    It is running on a fresh load of windows 7 but there is no change between this and my other drive running xp-pro.

    I have run some tests and on the route I am creating and the fps ranges from a low of about 5fps in fully loaded yards to about 10fps in the more rural areas. You can really notice the stuttering when you get below 7fps and that only happens occasionally.

    My biggest issues is that the timing of the game gets slower. This scenario should take about 2 hours to make the run from East Victorville to San Bernardino. Because the game time is running slower it takes over 3 hours, closer to 4 to complete even though the game says only 2 hours have passed. Add on top of this the fact that I use scenario based destination points, which is another issue since those seem to stop you from being able to continue a saved scenario, and you have a scenario that just becomes kind of useless since most people don't have 4 hours to sit at one time.

    I personally would not care that much about the fps stuttering a little but to take 15 minutes to go 1.5 miles in the game at 15mph is a bit re-donk-ulous.

    pikehkr
    Last edited by pikehkr; 07-12-2009 at 02:13 PM. Reason: spelling

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