Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Simple 3 signal String fails?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Murrysville, Pa.
    Posts
    192

    Default Simple 3 signal String fails?

    No new patch. Service 1 is an AI engine with a destination2 the target beyond Service2.

    Signals in first picture look good. Go into Play mode and they all turn green which is not correct.

    Run the scenario and Service1 will not move despite the all green. AI smarter than signals?

    Change target to Destination2 and the same signal appearance - Edit=first picture and play=second. But now AI lets the Service1 run to the destination.

    I would expect the signals in Play to be be red, yellow and green in Play moving toward Service1.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Regards,
    Dick

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    549

    Default

    I assume you are exiting to the menu in between the edit and play of the scenario ?

    John

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA.
    Posts
    14,705

    Lightbulb The invisible middleman

    Gotta keep in mind it's not train - signals, it's train - PATH - signals, you can't see the path but it affects everything. A train starting on the back side of a signal won't make that signal red because the signal don't actually "see" the trains, what it sees is the PATH, and if the train hasn't started running yet the signal don't see anything. AI train follows the path, since the path sees the other path it stops, AI train won't go unless it has a path to follow. Only way to make that work is to start them further apart, preferably starting the AI train on a side track with extra "spacer" signals on it.



    Start here, this signal is green over red, should be red over red, it don't see that train.



    Move the starting point back before the previous signal, THAT one don't see the train either so it's green.



    But once I pass the trip for that signal, this signal now sees the block as occupied and turns red. USUALLY they all work okay after that, of course they're not consistent. Sometimes they don't clear when they should because they didn't see the last car of the train passing the trip for the next signal, or display green when the train comes into the middle of the block (entering or leaving via a crossover for example), but for the most part you need to expect the first signal to be wrong and place your starting points accordingly.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg 1.jpg (77.2 KB, 84 views)
    • File Type: jpg 2.jpg (73.8 KB, 85 views)
    • File Type: jpg 3.jpg (63.1 KB, 84 views)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
    561

    Default

    Sorry, but I don't think anyone can explain this to you properly as they do not have enough information.

    You have two services in the picture. What is Service 2 doing? Where is it going?

    Is this single track? It looks like single track in the picture.

    Is only one way signaled? It looks like you only have signals on one side of the track.

    All of this comes into play.

    Pike

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    180

    Default

    What sniper is saying is that Trains are invisible at the very start of a scenario until the trigger a signal by passing it.
    The path of the train is known, but the position of the train is not until it passes a signal.
    Which, essentialy is correct.

    Watching a light board, you know where a train is "supposed" to be. But you cant say for sure until it passes a signal trigger and you see the signal change on the board.

    If you want that test to work, you will have to start the locos further appart, and throw some more signals in.

    Ill run my feather test and throw that on YT for you to see.
    It uses a bunch of CTRL signals in a chain, and some other signals too...
    Steam Nic :- ΞΕZ♠C๐צΞ Fraggle
    Project Watch: https://www.youtube.com/user/MrAdrianSW

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
    561

    Default

    My bad, I was responding to the AI part of his statements. For the lighting part you are correct, until you cross one of the signals the train will not show on the signaling system (occupancy).

    Think of the signals as blind and they have their hands (links) place on the track. Until something touches that hand, they don't know it exist. So when you start a scenario the signals don't know where anything is until one of the hands gets touched and then it lets the next signal know it's been touched and that signal tells the next signal. This continues until the message has no affect on the receiving signal and that signal stops passing it on or until there is no signal to recieve the message and the track ends, whichever comes first.

    Pike
    Last edited by pikehkr; 09-20-2009 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    180

    Default

    I explained it to someone by compairing it to a routing table.. LOL
    Steam Nic :- ΞΕZ♠C๐צΞ Fraggle
    Project Watch: https://www.youtube.com/user/MrAdrianSW

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
    Posts
    3,589

    Smile Incorrect signals

    I downloaded a copy of the Tennessee Pass route and I notice the same thing in
    it. When you come to the end of a siding, both of the exit signals show green
    and this is a definite no-no. If I am holding the main, then the siding exit should
    show stop (red), or vice-versa. I would say that there is a flaw in the RW signal
    scripts.

    However, I have been able to accomplish more toward getting a route together
    in a much shorter time than I ever was able to do with MSTS, so now the tear in
    my thinking is based on the very generous wealth of freeware material out there
    for MSTS versus a relative dirth of it for RW. TZ-2009 is able to use all previous
    legacy material, so there is also a lot out there for it.

    J. H. Sullivan

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Georgia, US
    Posts
    561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by landnrailroader View Post
    I downloaded a copy of the Tennessee Pass route and I notice the same thing in
    it. When you come to the end of a siding, both of the exit signals show green
    and this is a definite no-no. If I am holding the main, then the siding exit should
    show stop (red), or vice-versa. I would say that there is a flaw in the RW signal
    scripts.
    Not sure that is the correct assumption... Could be the route designer used the wrong signals or placed the links incorrectly.

    Pike

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA.
    Posts
    14,705

    Default Yup.

    That's a great route, but he DID use 1H0T signals where he should have used 1H1T, that's why they're displaying wrong. I don't have it installed at the moment cuz when I work on my route I get rid of other routes plus all the assets they depend on to make sure I don't accidentally stick something from 3Djusttrainsstuff or whatever into mine. Also the following are from railsim since I shifted development over there until the newest glitch is fixed, nothing like a little confusion, hey? Anyway they work the same way in both games, I've been adding signals in RS and copying the route over to RW to test run it since the signals are visible from farther away in railworks. Other than that they work the same.



    That's the 1H0T which I'm pretty sure is only intended as an interval AKA automatic block signal.



    Ingame they both show green, but that's correct since the blocks are both clear, not being linked to the track beyond the base of the switch they don't know anything about which way it's set, "not my job, man!"



    Use 1H1T instead with the secondary links beyond the base of the switch, in order to show anything other than red this type needs to be able to trace an uninterrupted path from the link zero to link 1, which it can't if that trace is broken by the switch points being set the wrong way.



    In game they alternate red or green depending on which way you throw the switch. Also see this;

    https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showpo...62&postcount=4

    Second part of that post a demo of how the paths affect the signals, I can swap back and forth between those two services and change which of the slip switch signals is green or red just by changing which train I'm driving in free roam.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg 1.jpg (90.1 KB, 75 views)
    • File Type: jpg 2.jpg (69.2 KB, 73 views)
    • File Type: jpg 3.jpg (86.4 KB, 75 views)
    • File Type: jpg 4.jpg (77.2 KB, 76 views)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •