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Thread: Signaling - Basics

  1. #1

    Default Signaling - Basics

    I am trying to learn more on the subject and looking into the RS manuals and the RW Wiki can not find anything about what forinstance the various US signals are for and how they have to be installed into a route to create blocks of track sections controlled by signals and how they are linked between such blocks.

    The way I understand signaling blocks to work is that if a train is in one of them then it can not be driven into by another one.

    The train passing from one block into the next, the signal it has passed turns RED and the one at the start of the block the train has just left turns to GREEN. Correct so far ?

    Thinking about this I ask myself what if a 100 wagons train brakes down after the loco passing the block exit signal has turned it to RED and the one behind it turned to GREEN, allowing another train to enter the block and run into the broken down train ? Or does this block not clear until all of the train has left it ?

    Below is a simple single track I would like to place signals next to, creating such blocks doing the above and driving along it should see the signals change as they should. Question is, which ones ? Have used IH-1T signals which are obviously not the correct ones.

    One unhelpful thing about these signals which show in the #9-Map is that one can not tell which way they are facing, like on can in the MSTS Activity editor.

    O t t o

    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Great post. This is one reason I jumped out of trying signaling not long after I jumped in. Which ones to use? There is a plethora of them. The documentation isn't the greatest. Some I tried sorta worked, others were red, always red, no matter what I did red.

    I edited a IOW scenario once and noticed one of the blocks/points (whatever you call them) for a signal was placed over in the dirt along side of the tracks. Why?

    Anyway, yeah, I gave up. The documentation needs to be better, and pictures added. The documentation I've read reads like a linux manual with key points seemingly missing in the steps that you only figure out by accident most of the time. Great if you are a developer and already know most things, but terrible for someone just trying to get their feet wet.
    Last edited by styckx; 10-28-2009 at 08:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Murrysville, Pa.
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    Smile

    Looks like Kuju left RS with only instructions on how to build signals for docs. So, the only thing RS could do was to make that the customer info and hope they could figure out the mess and translate into user level language.

    Do not forget to run a train through some signals to initialize them.
    Regards,
    Dick

  4. #4
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    Default

    Nevermnid

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Vlaardingen, Netherlands
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    Default blocks

    Otto,

    Real life railways mostly work more ore less on a scheme like :
    - the block were a train drives is has a red signal behind the train
    - then most railways have a safety block, also a red signal. This safety block is not a worldwide 'standard' but rather common , also depends on line speeds etc.
    - then a block with a yellow or other signal giving a speed limitation
    - then the first green
    In the US you would also find a flashing yellow, in Europe you would see signals with some kind of speed indication, like '4' for 40 km/h

    You would have somthing like
    - block with 'my train', red behind me
    - empty block, red behind it
    - speed limited block, yellow
    - green

    And semaphore signals are normally 'red' and will be set to 'green or yellow' for an upcoming train where modern block systems always show 'green' unless when a train just passed.(Unless the semaphore signals are part of a 'modern' block system)
    I do not know if RW supports such a scheme.
    And, like I wrote, not all countries/railroads work exactly the same. This is at least one situation were real life signalling in RW is probably difficult, they will have done some kind of 'generalisation'.
    But they could implement a good working scheme based on 'general' standards.
    Last edited by marjal; 10-29-2009 at 07:02 AM.
    Albert

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OTTODAD View Post
    The train passing from one block into the next, the signal it has passed turns RED and the one at the start of the block the train has just left turns to GREEN. Correct so far ?
    Well, as I wrote above, the basic sequence should be : red - yellow - green, or variations on that like red-yellow-blinking yello - green

    Quote Originally Posted by OTTODAD View Post
    Thinking about this I ask myself what if a 100 wagons train brakes down after the loco passing the block exit signal has turned it to RED and the one behind it turned to GREEN, allowing another train to enter the block and run into the broken down train ? Or does this block not clear until all of the train has left it ?
    Real life railways do an axle-count :
    if '# axles into block' = '# axles leaving block' then signal changes state.
    RW will not do this so beware of broken trains
    BTW Sniper proved in another topic more or less that trains in RW will not break
    Last edited by marjal; 10-29-2009 at 09:05 AM.
    Albert

  7. #7
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    Rocky River, Ohio, USA.
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    Default

    I am currently in the the process of realigning the signals in the CSX Mainline. Correcting some minor glitches and added and deleting some signals. Replacing most 2H0T and 1Hxx signals. I am using mostly 2H2T 1E signals as the 40/40, 50/40 and 60/50 signals appear to have faulty scripts. This is in RS as RW signals appear to be the same except visually. I have found that careful link placement results in signals working generally correctly.

    The next signal ahead now has a red aspect and the 2nd signal ahead has a yellow aspect. Behind the train the prior signal is red and the second is yellow. However, the train does not fully clear the block before the prior signal changes. This is the fault of the sim only reading the engine and not the cars attached.

    I have seen the following aspects:
    red/red, yellow/red, green/red, red/green, flashing red/red, red/flashing red, flashing yellow/red, yellow/green, and yellow/flashing green.

    At the Brunswick yard ( due to limited space for links between a cross over and a yard diverge) I used a 2H 3T 2E (?). The following aspect were seen. green/red (straight), red/green ( to other main), red/flashing red ( to yard). I do not always get the flashing yellow prior to the yellow aspect. What condition trigger a flashing yellow I can not say.

    I have also found that link placed beyond the link (0) of the next facing signal give false aspects. The exception being the 3T signals which surprisingly do work ( at least so far). Links touching other links also have problems reading correctly.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Belgium
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    Otto,
    I found a usefull doc :

    How to compose signals
    Signals and speed limits
    ERTMS, ECTS, PZB, LZB, etc
    The dark side of ActivateNode and how to benefit f...
    Hiding signals in the map
    How to signal a route
    The dark side of the --include statement
    Keep the last track piece clear
    Child elements

    http://andistechnicalities.blogspot....e-signals.html

  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks, guys, that explains a lot.

    But checking AndiS' blog, having known him to be an expert on many MSTS matters for years, he also is not specific about which signals do what, like mentioning a "Block Signal" without saying what type it is.

    Running multiple Freeroam AI trains in many of my OTTO copies of routes, spaced out to run at certain intervals, found that some signal stop them, having to wait until the AI ahead clears it's section.

    That looks odd, driving past stationary AI trains waiting to get a GREEN.

    What I then do is just remove these interfering with AI trains signals, the player not really requiring any either and are more eye-candy than preforming a real function.

    All I want to see is the GREEN signals the player passes change to RED, many of RED ones the player can pass without any ill-effects.

    What would be handy is a 2-aspects signal which reading the TurnoutState of a switch then shows it's path, GREEN over RED for straight and RED over GREEN for divert.

    I think I shall forget trying to make RW signals work while I still got some hairs left on my head !

    Approaching a trailing switch no signaling should be necessary, all of them allowing trains to drive through them irrespective of how their path is set.

    O t t o

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    I'm more confused then ever. Hope RS.com will do a video tutorial session on signals. Including what ones to use where and how to set them up correctly in various situations. I think visuals + explanations would be the best way to teach the basics of signaling to newbies at it, or people who just don't get it.

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