Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Regulator adjustment/settings?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southgate, Michigan, USA.
    Posts
    301

    Default Regulator adjustment/settings?

    I hope this is the correct forum for this question.
    I cannot seem to locate the file or location of the settings/percentages that adjust how the regulator operates.
    IE:I cannot adjust the steam percentages per notch of the regulator on my particular steam engine.

    If anyone could help point me in the right direction, It would be greatly appreciated.

    To clarify a little more, I have modified an engine file so that my engine only achieves a top speed of 25mph on level track at full throttle/regulator and reverser at 15%.
    However, the percentages are not inline with that. (The engine does 20mph at 2% regulator.), I'm trying to adjust so that I get an even acceleration up to the max percentage, and attain a max speed of 25mph.
    I hope that makes sense.

    Otterbear
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-26-2012 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
    Posts
    6,935

    Default

    Steam engines are not designed to work like that. The regulator on a steam engine is like the throttle on a car and has no notches. It allows more steam to the cylinders as the throttle is gradually opened, steam which is at boiler pressure. This is accompanied by a reverser or cutoff lever which does have notches generally, with the exception of steam operated reversers. This lever is used to set the times during the cylinder stroke when steam is admitted to and exhausted from the cylinders.

    Therefore, to acheive what you want you have to use the smallest throttle setting that will keep the train rolling at or about the limit you require. Like driving a car, the throttle will need constant attention to maintain a prticular speed adjusting higher or lower as needed.

    The reverse lever is like the car gearbox. High settings are the low gears, low settings are the high gears. High settings are also the ones that consume most steam per cylinder stroke.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Somerset, UK
    Posts
    240

    Default

    With great respect to diesel and electric locomotive drivers, driving a steam locomotive requires a great deal of skill that only comes after years of practice.

    While moving a train under control along the track (responding to speed limits, signals, gradients etc) is the same, actually controlling the locomotive power output is a lot more difficult.

    I believe that the shortage of skilled steam locomotive men after WW2 probably contributed to the changeover to diesel.

    But keep at it ! As with most things in life, you'll get a great deal more satisfaction when you accomplish a difficult thing, than an easy thing !

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southgate, Michigan, USA.
    Posts
    301

    Default

    Thanks for the help guys.
    I may have confused you a bit.
    While I do realize how a steamer works, (rarely use "simple controls" or "Otto fireman"), there is a difference between 9% regulator and 99% regulator.
    This is what I'm trying to model in/on my engine.
    Currently at 15% reverser, and 1% regulator, my engine is doing close to max speed.
    I need to make some adjustment to the engine file so that this isn't the case, and it takes more throttle(regulator) to achieve max speed. (say 70%)
    Is there such a place in the engine file?
    I know how to keep the train below max speed properly, but going at speeds significantly below max(say 15mph), is very difficult due to my miss-configured regulator settings. (I do have this train overpowered for significant grades on the routes that I like to run it. I know this plays a part in my problem, I was hoping to compensate by lowering the percentages on the regulator if possible.) Hope that helps.
    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-26-2012 at 10:24 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
    Posts
    6,935

    Default

    It would help if you could let us know which particular engine you are working with. I have just tried a small UK 0-6-0T engine at your throttle and reverser settings on level track and it happily trundles along at about 19mph, eventually. Takes about 2 miles of track to get there. It has nothing special in the eng file coding to do that either.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southgate, Michigan, USA.
    Posts
    301

    Default

    I have a couple that I'm trying to adjust.
    A K-36(287), and a 4-4-0(Seaview Betsy)
    I'm trying to model them to run at a max speed of 25mph. This may not be "perfect" for the 4-4-0, but that is the speed I like it to run at, as for the K-36, from my experience, it would be a bear to run at speeds close to 25mph and would probably destroy itself if run at anything greater than 25mph for any length of time.
    Both are OK, in their original state, but reach speeds that according to my experience riding in them, are not realistic operating speeds.
    So I adjusted their max speed settings(MUCH lower, and increased (quite a bit) their max power for the grades that I have to run.
    Other than that I haven't changed anything. I did modify the cab file that the 4-4-0 Seaview Betsy uses, to that of the modified K-36.
    (I'm not looking for realism, just trying to get them to be limited in speed and maintain pulling power) While I can go at slower speeds (10-15 mph), by just closing/opening the regulator; I was hoping to be able to modify the properties of the regulator settings to give me a close approximation of realistic use.) Turning the regulator into an on/off switch seems a bit harsh. What do you think?

    Just to be fair; I may have overstated the speed problem a bit.
    If I leave the reverser at 15% and the reg at 1% it will slowly climb to around 15-16mph,
    Anything over 1% and I'm going to be doing close to max speed...23.5mph in no time.
    So I'm either going just over the speed that I want (10-15mph) at 1% or I'm at max speed at 2%.
    I was hoping there was an adjustment that would give me say, 1-3mhp at 1% and 4-5mph at 2% ...25mph at 70-100%.
    Hope that helps.

    "To clarify a little more, I have modified an engine file so that my engine only achieves a top speed of 25 on level track at full throttle.
    However, the percentages are not inline with that. (The engine does 20mph at 2-3%.), I'm trying to adjust so that I get an even acceleration up to the max percentage, and attain a max speed of 25mph."
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-26-2012 at 01:16 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
    Posts
    6,935

    Default

    First thing, put the MaxPower back to the original settings in both engines. What you are trying to do, has to be done by real engineers using what they have to hand. The MSTS steam throttle does have some things wrong with it, but basically works like it should. More throttle = more steam=more speed. To get more power on grades, you have two options, increase throttle, or use higher cutoff settings.

    I have been experimenting with my little UK tank engine. Setting the MaxSpeed to 20mph, and towing a 240 ton train, I can run it on the level at about 25mph using 23% throttle and 28% cutoff. It also has a bit of resistance built in to the Friction line of the eng file.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southgate, Michigan, USA.
    Posts
    301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    First thing, put the MaxPower back to the original settings in both engines. What you are trying to do, has to be done by real engineers using what they have to hand.
    I'm assuming that comment was tongue-in-cheek.
    I have both engines running fine, just was wondering if I could adjust the throttle a bit.
    The only routes that I run have a lot of mountains and virtually NOTHING in the real world, or online, can make the grades. (OR the tight curves.) It would be easy to use a bigger engine, but they can't make the corners...nor can just about ANY freight or passenger wagons for that matter, I have to use really small wagons and trains to run these routes. Its a shame but at least they work.)
    (Pentacosta 4 and Seaview 5)

    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    The MSTS steam throttle does have some things wrong with it, but basically works like it should. More throttle = more steam=more speed. To get more power on grades, you have two options, increase throttle, or use higher cutoff settings.
    I assumed there was some fudging involved as MSTS isn't perfect, but I ran across a post a few days ago and a guy was talking about how he adjusted his reverser settings so that it added more "throttle" at lower settings and less on the high end. I know that reducing the reverser does this as well, but his comments got me to thinking that I could fix my power/ratio by making some changes to my regulator ratios. (I tried to find the post again, but looking for "Reverser" on a train sim forum...just doesn't work.)

    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    I have been experimenting with my little UK tank engine. Setting the MaxSpeed to 20mph, and towing a 240 ton train, I can run it on the level at about 25mph using 23% throttle and 28% cutoff. It also has a bit of resistance built in to the Friction line of the eng file.
    I have to say that isn't right. If that is the actual max speed of that engine(In real life). MSTS does a crappy job of using the maxspeed setting.
    By simply lowering the maxspeed setting, you can get more realistic speeds for trains that normally could not run above a certain speed. (usually a bit below what you want your train to be capable of.) You can also play with about 100 other variables to do the same thing, but its much easier for me to just adjust the max speed setting. A train with a normal max speed of 20mph shouldn't pull anything over 20mph unless its going downhill. (OK, MAYBE, it could go a tad faster with a lighter consist...but that would be outside the "Norm" for that engine.) So I always adjust my trains to operate within the confines of what was their normal speed capabilities. Some trains like the K-36 could run a bit faster than their "Normal" operation speed, but would run the risk of severe damage if done so routinely. The .eng file for the K-36 allows for 39mph, the train would literally fly apart at those speeds. Lowering it to 25mph still gave me 30mph in the sim, so I had to reduce the maxspeed to around 14mph to get the proper results in the sim.
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-26-2012 at 02:26 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
    Posts
    6,935

    Default

    If your engines can only haul small trains uphill, changing MaxPower is definitely not the way to go. Even more unrealistic than fudging MaxSpeed, so no, my statement was not "tongue in cheek". Also, whilst the MaxSpeed feature may be considered to be a kludge, if used in conjunction with proper friction settings, and proper usage of the controls, it works very well in situations where you do not want to exceed a certain speed by too much. Going downhill, brakes are supposed to be used to keep speed in check anyway.

    ""The .eng file for the K-36 allows for 39mph, the train would literally fly apart at those speeds. Lowering it to 25mph still gave me 30mph in the sim, so I had to reduce the maxspeed to around 14mph to get the proper results in the sim."" This is a perfect example of how to use the MaxSpeed properly in an eng file, and should always be used with the correct MaxPower setting.

    There are many variables in the steam eng file, and within limits you can make an engine do pretty much what you want, for example, by changing water and coal usage settings it is possible to get a steam engine to run all day on a gallon of water and a pound of coal. Not realistic, but possible.

    There is NO way that the throttle can be adjusted in the fashion that you seek. You can add notches if you wish, which has been done on some MSTS models, but the plain fact is, the handle operates a valve. The valve dictates at what pressure steam gets to the cylinders, and full throttle equals full boiler pressure. The cutoff dictates how efficiently that steam is used with max cutoff figures equalling maximum power for whatever throttle setting you are using, low cutoff therefore equals low power, but efficient steam usage.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Southgate, Michigan, USA.
    Posts
    301

    Default

    "baldwin - If your engines can only haul small trains uphill, changing MaxPower is definitely not the way to go."

    Me - "...It would be easy to use a bigger engine, but they can't make the corners...nor can just about ANY freight or passenger wagons for that matter"

    That is the ONLY reason that I'm forced to use smaller wagons and engines.

    I normally do NOT mess with the max power settings. I too like to run with realistic physics, and usually spend months getting all the variables to co-operate, to achieve the desired, realistic, and real world engine performance. HOWEVER, the routes that I mention, have VERY UNREALISTIC grades and curves. FORCING me to make some minor adjustments.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
-->