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Thread: Regulator adjustment/settings?

  1. #11
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    Unless I am missing it, I do not see any route names in your posts. However, that is not what the question is asking. There is only one route that comes to mind with unrealistic grades, and that is a very old payware one. Curves are a different matter, and the length of the stock used. Proper adjustment of the bounding box gets most things to run through tight curves, even making the box shorter than the visual car body helps in those cases.

    You want to modify the throttle to give a max speed of 25mph at full throttle. Not possible to do, and I think I have explained why. As to the question of using small engines for the reasons stated by yourself, there is nothing stopping double or triple heading or adding mid/rear end helpers to the train. Plenty of real railroads have had to do that in the past and as train weights have got bigger, continue to do do today.

    FWIW, I have just taken the Seaview Betsy out for a run on the level with the 3car train, unmodified. It is quite happy to run at 24/26 mph with throttle at 24% and reverser at about 20%. Betsy and the two coaches have a modified Friction line that gives them greater resistance to movement. This in turn makes Betsy a bit easier to control.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  2. #12
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    Thanks Baldwin,
    The two routes I'm talking about are Pentacosta v4, and Seaview v5.
    Both have some VERY steep grades, and tight curves, and although I would love to stop and add a helper engines and such, the problems with coupler values, gives me such a headache that I don't want to worry too much about it. I just started playing recently, and I may get back into it that deep here in the near future, but for now I just want to run the full route, (or most of it), without having to worry about "bogging down" on the mountainous parts.

    I did find this information in another post:

    "However, if you do have equipment that is extremly jerky and unhandy to controll - not every body uses Bob's latest physics, unfortunately - you might need to edit the .eng and .cvf files. On your MSTS installation CD you will find a folder called TechDocs, containing inter alia a .doc file called .eng and .wag file reference guide v2 or similar. In there, all the parameters and their functioning are explained, so with a bit of time, trial and error you can adjust that particular unit.

    Hint: The 'sensitivity' of a given controller (e.g. the train brake or throttle) is defined in the EngineControllers section of the .eng file, see this example:

    Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.02 0.15

    The four numbers mean the following:
    0 = Minimum setting of the controller,
    1 = Maximum setting of the controller,
    0.02 = increments by which controller moves; the lower the number, the finer (and slower) it applies,
    0.15 = Initial setting of the controller when .eng file is loaded."

    This doesn't help though, because even at increments of .001 I'm doing 7.5mph at 1% reg, and 21.5mph at 3% reg. (15% reverser for both instances.)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    ...Curves are a different matter, and the length of the stock used. Proper adjustment of the bounding box gets most things to run through tight curves, even making the box shorter than the visual car body helps in those cases.
    I've tried using Shapeview for viewing my bounding boxes and then changing the values in the file for that purpose but the wagons still "lock up" when the visible boxes touch..Even with the bounding boxes set to very small values. I tested this for quite a while the other night.

    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    You want to modify the throttle to give a max speed of 25mph at full throttle. Not possible to do, and I think I have explained why.
    Both MY trains have been modified in the .eng file to a max speed of 14mph which DOES lead to a top speed(IN SIM) of 24.4mph on level track at 75% throttle. (Sorry I was wrong...When I say full throttle/regulator, What I REALLY MEAN is 75% regulator, I only go above that for climbing hills.)

    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    FWIW, I have just taken the Seaview Betsy out for a run on the level with the 3car train, unmodified. It is quite happy to run at 24/26 mph with throttle at 24% and reverser at about 20%. Betsy and the two coaches have a modified Friction line that gives them greater resistance to movement. This in turn makes Betsy a bit easier to control.
    I like the idea of the modified friction lines, for added stability. I've just been adding extra cars/weight to help. (My current consist is 10 Wuertt Wagons.)
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-27-2012 at 08:42 AM.

  4. #14
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    There are a couple of programs you can use to modify friction, https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/tslib....ight&fid=15540 is Fcalc. You use it to work out the friction line for each item, then do a copy/paste from the program to the eng or wag file, or use the Copy button to copy to the clipboard, then paste from the clipboard to the eng/wag file.

    https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/tslib....ight&fid=13785 uses the back end of Fcalc and is supposed to write the result to the eng/wag file. It does not do that on my Win7 setup. Shall have to investigate why.

    Pentecosta and Seaview, both fictional routes, and both very well made. If I recall right, Seaview is the one with tight curves in places and long stock definitely does not like very tight curves. Pentacosta does indeed have some fearsome grades but so far I have not located any tight curves on it. The only workable solution for that, apart from increasing MaxPower, is to make the consist with helper engines and run it that way, or run short trains.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otterbear View Post
    Thanks Baldwin,

    I did find this information in another post:

    "However, if you do have equipment that is extremly jerky and unhandy to controll - not every body uses Bob's latest physics, unfortunately - you might need to edit the .eng and .cvf files. On your MSTS installation CD you will find a folder called TechDocs, containing inter alia a .doc file called .eng and .wag file reference guide v2 or similar. In there, all the parameters and their functioning are explained, so with a bit of time, trial and error you can adjust that particular unit.

    Hint: The 'sensitivity' of a given controller (e.g. the train brake or throttle) is defined in the EngineControllers section of the .eng file, see this example:

    Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.02 0.15

    The four numbers mean the following:
    0 = Minimum setting of the controller,
    1 = Maximum setting of the controller,
    0.02 = increments by which controller moves; the lower the number, the finer (and slower) it applies,
    0.15 = Initial setting of the controller when .eng file is loaded."

    This doesn't help though, because even at increments of .001 I'm doing 7.5mph at 1% reg, and 21.5mph at 3% reg. (15% reverser for both instances.)
    What you are finding there is the fact that the throttle, while it has some small problems, is acurately modelled with respect to the use of steam. I suspect that you are running a light engine ( no stock ) which will give that kind of reaction. Add a set of cars with modified friction lines like those in the Betsy set and the figures are markedly different, as long as you do not change MaxPower.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otterbear View Post
    This doesn't help though, because even at increments of .001 I'm doing 7.5mph at 1% reg, and 21.5mph at 3% reg. (15% reverser for both instances.)
    I suspected the maxpower setting, but that doesn't explain how I can go from 8 to 21.5mph by only adding 2% throttle. Does it? (If it does, then that means that the engine regulator settings in the .eng file are meaningless.)
    I guess what I'm saying is that at 1% I should be getting 1% of the available amount of steam/power, and at 50% I should get 50% of max power/steam..ectra. It looks like I'm getting 90% of max power/steam at 3% regulator.

    Im currently using 10 Wuertt Wagons for my consist.

    scrgrb0.jpg
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-27-2012 at 09:59 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    There are a couple of programs you can use to modify friction, https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/tslib....ight&fid=15540 is Fcalc. You use it to work out the friction line for each item, then do a copy/paste from the program to the eng or wag file, or use the Copy button to copy to the clipboard, then paste from the clipboard to the eng/wag file.

    https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/tslib....ight&fid=13785 uses the back end of Fcalc and is supposed to write the result to the eng/wag file. It does not do that on my Win7 setup. Shall have to investigate why.

    Pentecosta and Seaview, both fictional routes, and both very well made. If I recall right, Seaview is the one with tight curves in places and long stock definitely does not like very tight curves. Pentacosta does indeed have some fearsome grades but so far I have not located any tight curves on it. The only workable solution for that, apart from increasing MaxPower, is to make the consist with helper engines and run it that way, or run short trains.
    Thanks for the help. Yes, BOTH routes are very well made. Seaview does have the most drastic curves and grades, but Pentacosta has one particular curve in the mountains(maybe more), that even one car can't get through if its a normal sized car. (Unless, I increase the power of the engine, and in that case it might get through.) I have found that I cannot run ANY passenger cars on just about any route with curves. I've tried and they all bind up. (I appreciate your input on the "bounding box" problem. I will have to look into this a bit more.) Yes, I could break the route up and avoid the bad curves. I just don't like to have to come out of the sim and restart. :P (I can't remember the routes that I tried, but I just got fed up with the problem and went with the smaller cars.) I will (Like I say), look into this a bit more in the future.
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-27-2012 at 09:56 AM.

  8. #18
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    Every steam locomotive I have ran or worked on have notches on the throttle. Mabye in other countries they don't have notches but here in the USA they do.
    DBH

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBH View Post
    Every steam locomotive I have ran or worked on have notches on the throttle. Mabye in other countries they don't have notches but here in the USA they do.
    DBH
    DBH: Are you talking about Steam Engines? (I have thought about making it notched, but I'm not sure you can.)

    Baldwin, My bad, I was running simple controls and that screwed up my data.
    I'm now doing 15.5mph with 15% reverser, and 1% regulator, with a ten car consist on level ground.(in full realism mode.)
    Something doesn't add up. I seem to be getting 80% power at 1% regulator. That makes no sense to me, and is the reason that I wanted to be able to adjust the settings. (I still top at at 24.7mph with 75% reg and 15% rev.)

    What friction values are you using on your Seaview 4-4-0? (If I may ask.)
    Last edited by Otterbear; 12-27-2012 at 10:37 AM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otterbear View Post
    DBH: Are you talking about Steam Engines? (I have thought about making it notched, but I'm not sure you can.)

    Baldwin, My bad, I was running simple controls and that screwed up my data.
    I'm now doing 15.5mph with 15% reverser, and 1% regulator, with a ten car consist on level ground.(in full realism mode.)
    Something doesn't add up. I seem to be getting 80% power at 1% regulator. That makes no sense to me, and is the reason that I wanted to be able to adjust the settings. (I still top at at 24.7mph with 75% reg and 15% rev.)

    What friction values are you using on your Seaview 4-4-0? (If I may ask.)
    The friction on Betsy is as supplied. I am currently running Betsy light engine on 15% reverser and 1% throttle, engine is doing 3.9 mph with a projected of 3.6, on level track, actually slowing down. Boiler pressure is 75psi, steam chest pressure is 1psi which is a long way from being 80% of 75. The power of a steam engine comes from the steam pressure admitted to the cylinders. The smaller the throttle setting, the lower the power. Where KUJU screwed the pooch here is in how they applied the reverser to the equation.

    In a steam engine, the throttle actuates a valve which allows steam to move from the boiler to the cylinders via pipes and what is known as the steam chest. This is akin to a reservoir which holds steam before it is admitted to the cylinders. The pressure here is controlled by the throttle. The reverser is the gadget that sets the valve timing for steam to enter and leave the cylinders and as such should have a negative effect on the steam chest pressure. In fact in the game, the reverser has about as much effect as the throttle in this area.

    So, now I have increased the throttle to 3%, still at 15% reverser and the steam chest pressure has gone up to 2 psi, and the engine is now on a very slow speed increase.

    Edit
    Changing the tender first friction line to 813.1N/m/s -0.10 1.5mph 1.275N/m/s 2.000 has an immediate effect on the way the engine runs. I now have 5% throttle, 15% reverser and am running at exactly 9.8 mph on level track, no coaches. No other changes have been made to the engine or tender.
    Last edited by baldwin; 12-27-2012 at 01:57 PM. Reason: more info
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

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