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Thread: Where's the fun in Trainz now

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-railwayman View Post
    Hmmm, well, I have tried Open Rails Bruce, which is just a souped up version of MSTS, IMHO, which is what therock alluded to, and I can see his point, so, I wouldn't say he was taking the mickey, ....
    Using the phrasing that he did, including the hyperbolic "fantastically more powerful" - as if it were DC Comics description of a super-hero - it is difficult to believe otherwise.

    Open Rails doesn't pretend to be a anything other than, to use your expression, a souped-up version of MSTS; that is exactly what it is, as the volunteers assembling the product and the regular users understand.

    As for Run 8 being "far too juvenile in the simulation genre to compete...", that is so far from fact as to be laughable.
    As it stands now, it provides the greatest realism in simulating the operation of a Class 1 diesel at the head of a 5000 foot heavy consist.

    Bruce
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    As for Run 8 being "far too juvenile in the simulation genre to compete...", that is so far from fact as to be laughable.
    As it stands now, it provides the greatest realism in simulating the operation of a Class 1 diesel at the head of a 5000 foot heavy consist.
    Bruce
    Hmmm, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to get across Bruce, they only released the BNSF Mojave Desert route LAST SEPTEMBER, 9 months ago, so, they are light years behind having the variety of content to compete with Trainz, and all the other well established train sims, not, that RUN8 isn't a good enough game, maybe I didn't clarify that point, for which I apologise.

    Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
    i5 4690 3.5 GHz Quad Core CPU, Gigabyte Z97-HD3, 16GB RAM, nVidia GTX1060 6GB, WIN 7 PRO 64-bit.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    And as far as being "fantastically more powerful..." etc, you are either seriously taking the mickey or have not tried either Run 8 or Open Rails.
    Have you ever tried to make your own route in Open Rails or Run 8 or MSTS? Let me know how that works out or how far you get.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    As for Run 8 being "far too juvenile in the simulation genre to compete...", that is so far from fact as to be laughable.
    As it stands now, it provides the greatest realism in simulating the operation of a Class 1 diesel at the head of a 5000 foot heavy consist.
    And yet it still looks like a dimly lit MSTS clone with railsimulator equipment from 12 years ago.

    refer to my other post
    Quote Originally Posted by therock View Post
    value (see: fun)
    Maybe you're perfectly fine with running an absurdly massive collection of trains across the same couple stretches of track over and over and over and over and over until someone makes you a new one or are okay with not being able to throw down your own without all the hassle of MSTS route building. Maybe that's how you feel about your simulators. I just know that I couldn't spend another week dealing with MSTS and the same old slew of content- hundreds and thousands of new freight cars and engines for every one new route? Routes that don't even come up to my standard of what a route should look like bare minimum? That isn't acceptable to me. Maybe it is to you, but not for me. That's why I'm still with Trainz: because I can actually have FUN with it as BOTH a developer and consumer.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by therock View Post
    Have you ever tried to make your own route in Open Rails or Run 8 or MSTS? Let me know how that works out or how far you get.
    OR uses the MSTS editing suite and yes, I've attempted to create a route from scratch. It was a frustrating exercise. I found it easier to modify an existing one, which I did, several times, but only for my own use.

    Run 8 does not yet have an editor for the masses; what they serve up is what you get and at the moment it is two desert routes with, as you correctly state, the graphic equivalent of MSTS.
    But I use Run 8 (single player) when I want the highest level of realism that I can experience in the virtual cab of a heavy loco.

    I have, however, created several routes for Trainz: Robe River Iron, Crawford Hill, Potash and finally Tarana - the latter being picked up and completed by another party. All were prototypical, Robe being a half-length version of the real world Pilbara route.
    I enjoyed the experience in Surveyor over the years and only a couple of months back I bought TZ2012 with the intention of getting back into the creative side.

    However, the frustrations of working with an outdated core - the very reason I shelved Trainz six years ago - resurfaced and I have, reluctantly, put it to one side once again.

    In other words, it still runs like it did 12 years ago.

    Bruce
    Last edited by seagoon; 06-16-2013 at 05:00 PM.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  5. #75
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    Very interesting thread, and please continue. I enjoyed Auran Trainz several years ago, and as it was new at the time, I went back to MSTS. As a user and not a route creator, I had many great hours of Trainz operations, but in many games and simulators, new versions come along. Each one offers a new perspective that the old one did not implement. If you can find pleasure in operating your particular train sim, please have the utmost enjoyment. There is definitely no need to sell any other sim to the readers of this forum. Many of us have been there, I have used them all except Run8.

    I purchased MSTS when it was a very unusual,new, buggy triansim. Which by the way, no help what so ever from Micro-soft.
    It has transformed into so much content and routes that I sometimes want to re-load it up and get running.
    But that's a project for another day.
    Interested in all Train-Sims

  6. #76

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    I had utc thru TZ 04 also mts. I'm currently using run8. run8 is not a "sandbox" for creation be it routes or rolling stock. Whilst TZ is those things and that s something that a lot of people including myself have enjoyed and do enjoy.
    I compare run8 to sims of a different genre, that being Steelbeastspro and DCS. Much like Sbpro content comes from the devs and with that comes quality control of product. with run8 your not getting gobs of eye candy or latest gen graphics. what you are getting is a stable program that emulates proto operations on a class one RR. It has a dem map with gr8 physics/sound and an interactive cab of a gevo. it has also been developed to operate with Raildriver. my 10 yr old unit plug and play woohhoo! So if driving multi DMU units in fence mode moving a consist thats 5 or 6k long, fighting a 2% grade with out breaking a coupler is what your into, then run8 is the one. BTW the other lil thing run8 does is "save session". I can load or unload/ add or delete consist and save in same session. Ive been playing the same session for over a month now. I would be remiss if I did not mention fps, I'm running between 50-90 fps w a res of 3072x768 [3 mon] with 1600 pieces of rolling stock on the route. That is something TZ couldn't do unless u r into slide shows. it also has a dispatcher panel, and there is a car forwarding program that has been developed for it known as RTS. Its prime focus is multiplayer, so no AI yet. I spend all my time driving/operating this sim. Zero time in troubleshooting. Forgive me as I sound like a fanboi here. But I used to love TZ but there were many hours spent in bitter frustration with TZ for me, I spent more hours trouble shooting then running and when I thought I had it where I wanted it was a stutter show more often then not. For me the fun is in operation/driving and run8 excels in these areas

  7. #77
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    One has to wonder of course whether anyone posted with Jointed Rail in their signature banner has a vested commercial interest in Trainz to the extent of defending the indefensible (you see that a lot on the Auran forums, too).

    Anyhow that aside, I did decide to spend an hour or two yesterday in Surveyor and it is an enjoyable experience compared to the Railworks route editor, but that doesn't remove the awareness of how dated and tatty it is starting to look. Still if it serves the purpose for the project you wish to undertake and having a Transdem map overlaid on the terrain is much easier than spending hours going boss eyed in Google Earth planting markers.

    I have considerable experience building routes in all three sims so tend to be fairly clued up on what each has to offer. Of course even with the aid of Open Rails, MSTS is a bit dated now though still offers a good driving experience. Ultimately that's what it's all about - realistic physics running/driving a train across a route in a prototypical manner. Trainz sadly comes last in that and just to prove that graphics don't matter, there's a few of us who still regard Zusi 2 as probably the best overall sim. (And it's a tragic shame OpenBVE development folded before the author could programme in a route editor).

  8. #78
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    Hi Vern --

    " ... to the extent of defending the indefensible ... ."

    I think the hypothesis that we are testing is "Is Trainz Fun?" I'm more than prepared to defend this. So are many others, including the content creators (perhaps even JointedRail) who do it for fun and/or profit.

    Whether the physics are absolutely 100% realistic or the graphics on the ultimate bleeding edge is irrelevant to many of us. It's the fun factor. Else we would not be here defending what some others might consider indefensible because their list of important criteria and the weighting factors they apply gives a slightly different answer.

    Phil

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    One has to wonder of course whether anyone posted with Jointed Rail in their signature banner has a vested commercial interest in Trainz to the extent of defending the indefensible (you see that a lot on the Auran forums, too).
    The things I've been saying in my posts have serve no representation of jointed rail or auran or any other party but my own thoughts on the matter. Besides, the first few engines at JR were developed for Trainz, MSTS, and Railsimulator before we determined individually what simulators we would be developing for. Even the SW1500 I finished up just last year [mind you I haven't had MSTS installed in over 3 years now] was slated to be released for Trainz and MSTS simultaneously. If I still thought MSTS was worth woodworking on then I'd still be spending time with it. That's not the case though, for reasons I pretty clearly laid out in my last post. Just to clear that up.

  10. #80
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    As a postscript to the above, I would just add in its current state, realistic physics aside, I found Run 8 to be fairly boring and tedious. Just the one route (though others are planned), no AI and having to set the train and route up from scratch every time you reload a saved game seriously hinders the fun factor for me.

    Anyhow back to Mother Russia in TS12, for now...

    russia1.jpg

    I guess I am indeed having fun and exercising my old brain.

    This shot also illustrates the power of Transdem vs GE or decals in Railworks.
    Last edited by NorthernWarrior; 06-17-2013 at 05:37 AM.

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