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Thread: Is MSTS dead?

  1. #11
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    But then again, SLI's military train runs 21,000 polys per car, and an entire trainload of them runs fine in old MSTS.

  2. #12
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    I think it all depends on the individuals definition of "dead". MSTS will be 13 years old in May. There has been no M$ support since Dec 2001. I will continue to run & improve my copy of MSTS until I am no longer able.

    John

  3. #13
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    Until OR has their own editors MSTS can not die.

    As far as MSTS and low frame rate I'm running a test train with 50 of my own cars at 9000+ polygons each, plus a van and behind a 2-10-4 with no problems. Yes it's smoother in OR but it's still running fine in MSTS.

    If you're running just five cars with two SDs and you're down to 1 frame per minute I'd be thinking it's more about your video card then MSTS.

    Paul :-)

  4. #14
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    MSTS will never be dead in my eyes, but that's some incredible detail! I'm not sure if a freight car should have that many polys, but it would make a great OR car. Plus, there is the use of LODs.

  5. #15
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    Hi Vern
    Yes but the installers for Demex and Mosaic are 16 bit, which won't run under Win 7 64 bit. You can replace the generic install.exe with a 32 bit version but it still won't decode the other data. The only confirmed workaround is to install a virtual machine which is too much of a hassle
    .
    Whereas it's true that the demex_setup141.exe and demex_setup151.exe use the 16-bit installer and script file, the demexbeta01.zip and demexbeta02.zip unpack to reveal DEMEX.exe which will run under Win 7 64-bit. I don't know how complete these versions are because when I used DEMEX a couple of years ago, I installed 151 via XP 32-bit!

    Mosaic does seem to install into Win 7 64-bit, using mosaic_setup101.exe or mosaic_setup102.exe.

    Cheers,
    Ged


  6. #16
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    All of that (good) work, to be put into a game that looks and feels like super mario bros. I hope OR does something about the shaders soon, but I dont know how they will be able to move forward, shader wise without making older stuff look obsolete. How do you move forward into at least the 21st century graphics without making old content including whats being made now look dated? Everything made going forward would look great taking advantage of newer shaders ect, but old stuff would be stuck look old. Think of most models that were made for msts and ported to RailWorks... you can tell. Im curious how that will work out in OR, my guess is, it will be a trade off and thus not really moving forward at all. I never really understood being the sim of the future and yet being stuck in the past in so many ways.

  7. #17
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    LOD's can be a hindrance, more than a help. The game engine has to load, for example, four different shapes for one object, not less polys, but in reality more. And the MSTS transition between levels is, well, nonexistent. In addition, MSTS uses a very primitive system, involving geometry only, since it isn't capable of using shaders. Basically, the theory is, if an object is smaller than one pixel, it can't be rendered anyway, however, how do you determine when that is? Based on a fixed distance? I've yet to see a model with LOD's that don't "pop" in and out. And remember, both models have to be in the rendering pipeline in order for that to happen. The distance is based on the origin point of the part, and quite often, I've seen models that at a not unreasonable distance, that are floating along without trucks or wheels!

    Ultimately, OR will need to abandon DX9 to move forward. Which means no more Windows XP support...

    Paul, I do my MSTS car testing on a retro XP computer with a 3G Core2Duo, 1G of ram, and a 512M X1300 Radeon card.

    I do that to make sure it will load on lower end systems. I usually get quite acceptable fps with my main PC, an i7 OC'd to 4.4G with 16G of RAM, and a Radeon HD7790... It just doesn't work in Windows 8.1, I have to reboot into Windows 7 to run it.

    Robert

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
    Hi Vern
    .
    Whereas it's true that the demex_setup141.exe and demex_setup151.exe use the 16-bit installer and script file, the demexbeta01.zip and demexbeta02.zip unpack to reveal DEMEX.exe which will run under Win 7 64-bit. I don't know how complete these versions are because when I used DEMEX a couple of years ago, I installed 151 via XP 32-bit!

    Cheers,
    Ged

    I think you can only use those with a full licence, rather than the freeware licence. Something to try, perhaps.

    Edit: Yep, can only be used on fully licensed systems and of course only includes the .exe file, not all the ancilliary files which need to come from the 151 installer.
    Last edited by NorthernWarrior; 02-24-2014 at 11:03 AM.

  9. #19

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    Robert, do those cars load and perform fine in Open Rails? Open Rails is not limitless either, even if it's limit is higher than msts. And the more features that get put in, the lower it's performance goes (that's not a complaint, just a fact of life. I wonder if the initial terrific performance of open rails was because things like shadows, distant mountains, smoke and so on hadn't been done yet).

    Personally, to me it's more important to have the right car and the right road name than to have it look top notch (not that I don't value that! But I am willing to sacrifice). Although I do cringe when (for example) there aren't any brake hoses. I think everyone makes different trade-offs in this regard.

    I do think that the faster Open Rails can get activity editors and route editors, the better. But I don't have coding skills, so I'm just opining in the wind . . .

    Christopher
    Last edited by conductorchris; 02-24-2014 at 12:27 PM.

  10. #20
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    JMO: These high poly well detailed cars look and make for great eye candy if all you are doing is screen shots but how many people who run routes and activities ever zoom in and look that close at the car and it's details and if they do it's only for a brief period and you would only look at a few different roads or numbers and a string of 50 would be a waste of resources. I'd have no interest in trying to run them in MSTS. OR folks may want to use them but I'm not ready for OR until it's further developed.

    Just like the high detailed expensive HO cars, thats why more people are dropping modeling then those starting, it's becoming a hobby for the rich only.

    This isn't meant to take away from the model, it's a great model.
    Last edited by hiball 3985; 02-24-2014 at 12:47 PM.

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