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Thread: Conquering Saluda in OpenRails

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottb613 View Post
    First thing that comes to mind - are the locomotives and cars setup for ORTS ? There are a bunch of custom values that can be added to modify the performance in ORTS... I know ORTS uses the Davis Friction Coefficients from FCALC -
    Thanks for the thoughts Scott. After messing with FCalc most of the evening and setting some OpenRails parameters in wagon files, Ive came up with something Im happy with and can traverse the five percent grade at 8mph and braking with air and dynamics as needed with retainers set on the first 20 cars to high pressure setting. Ive ran it twice and am quite happy with the results as air and dynamics should be applied at about the same times as in the protoype video.

    I had one wagon that was way off and was 1/3 off my original consist. Using Davis Coefficients settings made the difference as the friction values were close besides the one wagon that was way off. Adding these settings to my wagon file:

    Comment ( *** Friction *** )

    ORTSBearingType ( Roller )

    ORTSDavis_A ( 1058.00 )
    ORTSDavis_B ( 16.4530 )
    ORTSDavis_C ( 1.400056 )

    As calculated by FCalc 2.0 brought me to where I needed to be and no more out of control train. I was blown away how much difference those settings made. This will be done in all my rolling stock in the future for sure. I will post a follow up video soon. Thanks again.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    Snowman:
    For the Route I assume you are referring to these files in library saluda.zip and saludort.zip.
    Activity and consist info would help.
    Would like to try.
    Yes, although I didnt download saludort.zip as I must be using default scaleroad textures? I think that download is optional. Great route as it keeps me on my toes.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankoburns View Post
    Plan to try it in Open Rails after supper..I'll let ya know how that run turns out..
    Please do. Id like to know how it goes.
    Last edited by Snowman; 01-22-2015 at 11:54 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Leoben, Styria, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Retainers: MSTS no. Open Rails yes?
    MSTS: IDK
    ORTS: Exactly!

    Cheers, Markus


    Trains. Trains? Trains! =)
    I usually hang out at www.elvastower.com (markus_GE).
    Also take a look at my homepage: http://mgelbmann.jimdo.com/

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA.
    Posts
    92

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    What is not mentioned in the film, is the fact that the rest of the cars on the train have their retainers set to the 'slow direct release' position. This is a key point in the use of cycle braking on Saluda. Also the braking ratio values in the 'wag' files are probably not the same as the prototype Silversides. Most hopper cars will not sit still on Saluda in emergency. Some of the N&W people were quite shocked to see their cars start creeping now the mountain after being put into emergency.

    Dick Kimball

  5. #15

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    You are correct, Dick..Trying to run the mountain in Open Rails with equipment specs for MSTS physics works only marginally..First run in ORTS last night was a disaster. I need to sit down and redo the wag files on the cars using the friction numbers posted above. Also need to experiment with FCALC on brake settings and set the parameters for this Trainset to Open Rails...I normally hate doing physics stuff but this might be kind of fun...
    I'm like an old SD9; It Growls, Howls & squeaks...but it will run forever!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA.
    Posts
    92

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    Taking a train down Saluda takes a lot of experience. That is why a Road Foreman of Engines always took the Belmont down. I have tripled several trains up Saluda and run light engines down, but never took a train down myself. I was on the Belmont one morning when the RFE cut in the dynamic brakes on the remote units to soon and we broke a knuckle and had to double the train down the hill.

    Dick kimball

  7. #17

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    Thats the one issue with running this in MSTS, and maybe ORTS as well...No way to take the remote units offline or set the dynamics independently from the lead units..I didn't break any couplers because I had set them up for Roger's Pass originally because of a glitch in that route and a coupler issue there...When redoing the physics on this trainset for ORTS...the possibility of breaking a knuckle will become reality again..In the MSTS runs I made of this scenario, applying dynamics after the remote units created the grade crossing, the train was well over 20 mph and the result was not enough reduction in train speed to keep from triggering the safety switch....thus a fun "ride to the side" on the runaway track...One run, the train exceeded 30 mph! The best results were obtained by closing the throttle completely after the first 25 cars crested and then varying the dynamics from 25 percent for 10 cars, then full on for the rest of the train with a bit of train brake towards the middle when the remotes crest the grade. It stretches the hell out of the train and if not for my increased coupler settings, surely would have broke a coupler somewhere in the 5 cars before the remote units..(they were placed 60 cars back). Resulting train speed was 18 mph and I was able to maintain less than 20 the rest of the way down the hill. Without the ability to take the remotes offline or have independent control of their dynamics, this one issue might affect the ORTS version of this scenario, even with the retainers set and better physics tweaks..
    Last edited by frankoburns; 01-23-2015 at 01:29 PM.
    I'm like an old SD9; It Growls, Howls & squeaks...but it will run forever!

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlkimbal View Post
    What is not mentioned in the film, is the fact that the rest of the cars on the train have their retainers set to the 'slow direct release' position.
    It is mentioned as they leave Ashville that they set them to slow direct position, but I could never figure out if they stayed that way through out the trip, or they changed them when setting the retainers to high pressure at Paces. Now I know. My next thought is that OpenRails cant simulate this can it? You can simulate slow direct, or high pressure but it has to be one or the other, not both.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankoburns View Post
    I need to sit down and redo the wag files on the cars using the friction numbers posted above.
    My friction numbers are for a 100ton car which is probably a little light. The load limit is 211,000lbs (105.5t) plus the weight of the car 52,000lbs ( 26t ) which adds up to 131.5 tons which the train couldnt hold 8mph with that weight.

    I changed my total weight to what the values were before editing which were 116.9ton and this was better of course recalculating in FCalc. So, to be sure I could get the train down some what realistically I lowered the weight to 100t and edited value accordingly.

    Below are my values for each:

    Mass ( 100t )

    Friction (
    1058.0N/m/s -0.10 1.6mph 4.757N/m/s 1.731

    Comment ( *** Friction *** )

    ORTSBearingType ( Roller )

    ORTSDavis_A ( 1058.00 )
    ORTSDavis_B ( 16.4530 )
    ORTSDavis_C ( 1.400056 )

    ********************************

    Mass ( 116.9t )

    Friction (
    1182.3N/m/s -0.10 1.6mph 5.582N/m/s 1.697

    Comment ( *** Friction *** )

    ORTSBearingType ( Roller )

    ORTSDavis_A ( 1182.30 )
    ORTSDavis_B ( 19.2336 )
    ORTSDavis_C ( 1.400056 )

    ********************************

    Mass ( 131.5t )

    Friction (
    1289.7N/m/s -0.10 1.6mph 6.328N/m/s 1.671

    Comment ( *** Friction *** )

    ORTSBearingType ( Roller )

    ORTSDavis_A ( 1289.68 )
    ORTSDavis_B ( 21.6357 )
    ORTSDavis_C ( 1.400056 )

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Leoben, Styria, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    [...]
    You can simulate slow direct, or high pressure but it has to be one or the other, not both.
    [...]
    AFAIK, the latest revisions to the braking system also allow for retainers set on a per-car basis via the train operations window.

    Cheers, Markus


    Trains. Trains? Trains! =)
    I usually hang out at www.elvastower.com (markus_GE).
    Also take a look at my homepage: http://mgelbmann.jimdo.com/

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by markus1996 View Post
    AFAIK, the latest revisions to the braking system also allow for retainers set on a per-car basis via the train operations window.

    Cheers, Markus
    That would be a plus...
    I'm like an old SD9; It Growls, Howls & squeaks...but it will run forever!

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