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Thread: MSTS Route--Black Canyon NG Line

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMSS View Post
    That is what the Route Specification Forum is for. To know what the route entails before you download it. It would have save you the "wasted considerable time trying to get this route to work". In the future, I would advise you check that part of the forum first before clicking on download for a route.

    The top route builders on here like Jerry always list the completes of their routes in the forum there after they upload it to the D/L library.
    OK, I understand, and thanks for the info. But the fact is, in years of using this website and downloading routes, I have never before had this problem, nor was I even aware of the Route Specification Forum until now. I think your last sentence above pretty much says it all. Incidentally, to the best of my knowledge this has never been an issue in flightsim.com or any of the flight simulation websites, where files available for download are accompanied by a detailed description of what they do and do not include.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
    Posts
    3,916

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    We use the route specification forum because for many routes, additional material, perhaps some payware is required for it. While that could be put in the download zip file, it is too easily missed there. Thus those of us that have created routes over the years religiously
    use the specification forum to "advertise the contents". I too use FS-X and I agree with your comment but FS is a lot less involved
    than TS. If I want to fly a Mooney, I just download the file and pop it in, very easy. No so with many routes. Like we used to use spanned zip files and you really got a lot of flack over those.

    Personally, I won't download a route if it requires running some installer to load it. Win-7 is just so picky about such programs and so I
    much prefer routes that just come as a zip file of data.

    J. H. Sullivan
    (aka landnrailroader)

  3. #13

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    Thanks -- this has been an educational experience for me, and I guess the lesson is that I need to check out the RSF before downloading anything in the future, even though I have been blissfully unaware of it for years. One thing I still don't quite get, is why the developers of this particular route, which is just a track on a green background, with no "canyon" visible at all) was worth uploading at this stage. By analogy with FSX, it's as if someone uploaded an airport consisting of a runway and nothing else!

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    One thing I still don't quite get, is why the developers of this particular route, which is just a track on a green background, with no "canyon" visible at all) was worth uploading at this stage.
    Maybe I missed something, but I thought Jerry made it clear he had no intent of doing scenery, and there are others people who gladly will pick up where he leaves off.

    There's a subset of people who love doing scenery, but are deathly afraid of laying track &/or doing all the leg-work for generating terrain.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
    Posts
    3,916

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by eolesen View Post
    Maybe I missed something, but I thought Jerry made it clear he had no intent of doing scenery, and there are others people who gladly will pick up where he leaves off.

    There's a subset of people who love doing scenery, but are deathly afraid of laying track &/or doing all the leg-work for generating terrain.
    Let me fill in some details. This effort started when I bought a book in February at the local train show that covered the history
    and operation of the Marshal Pass line, the western end of which went through the Black Canyon. I commented on the narrow
    gage forum at ElvasTower that it ought to be a great NG route. At least two fellows who regularly do their thing there, plus
    another that mostly shares his routes on this site, commented that it would be difficult to figure out the route now that it was
    under 100M+ water in two reservoirs. I told them that I would take the challenge and see what I could do.

    I was able to overlay 1952 era topo maps on Google Earth as semi-transparent images and align them to the edges of the
    lakes. These topo maps also had the outline of the original river in dark blue with the lake in sort of a magenta color. This
    allowed me to digitize, fairly accurately, the river. Then I overlaid 1908 era topo maps on that, aligning them to the
    digitized river and then I digitized the track. It is not as accurate as it would be if you actually digitized the r/w or a track but
    it is what it is. Next, there were many elevation points on those topo maps and I was able to fairly accurately place markers
    for the elevation fiducials. Measuring the lineal distance on GE between fiducials, I was able to estimate the gradient, which
    is not very steep for narrow gage, averaging about 0.5%. I then laid the track on the flat surface of the lake and after being
    satisfied with that, I went back to the high (east) end and worked in the gradient.

    Now never was this intended to be anything except a 20+- mile section for someone to put in their own route. I am not very good
    at scenery myself, but since the first 13 years of my, now 51 year, railroad career was involved with inspecting track on the
    Southern Rwy., I am quite careful with that and will not accept, among other things, rapid gradient changes on standard gage
    lines. If anyone has my RMD-2, or the RMD-East, check out how I changed the grade just west of Piedmont, MT on the
    Milwaukee Road, from near level to over 2%. When you run that route, there are no significant bumps or jogs at that point
    which is what I require of myself. Now if one of the scenery guys was to further tweak one of my routes, I welcome you to it,
    just footnote me as the originator.

    J. H. Sullivan
    (aka landnrailroader)

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