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Thread: TSW -Train sim World-UE4

  1. #51
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    Interesting Analogy Doug, but to pick up on one point. M$ presented us with an almost open software. No licence required to produce add-ons? The add-on's were useless without their base programme.

    Now I've not been following the in's and out's of RS/RW/TS20XX as far as this is concerned. Did any of the 3rd party payware folk need to licence anything from RS/DTG? ....or could they too just do their own thing?

    Back at the start there were quite a lot of freeware routes for RS/RW. Indeed one of the selling points for RS was how easy route building was going to be. However in my brief dabble in RW I was disappointed to see that many freeware offerings depended upon ownership of payware routes for assets contained within those. Did that situation improve? I know that in the UK UKTS launched a programme of putting together a lot of freeware assets but did the same happen in North America?

    I ask because we have a saying here, "Same sh*t, different shovel!" In relation to this discussion, will development of 3rd party assets (if there are any) for TSW depend upon ownership of lots of base payware from add-ons you might otherwise have no interest in? Or is my understanding of that feature of RS/RW/TS20XX outdated or now resolved?
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    No, most "hard-core railroaders" would not repeat that run over and over and over again unless the physics/dynamics were sufficiently realistic to make it challenging and immersive.
    I agree with the need for proper physics, but I contend that the outside world needs to be realistic as well. That brings up a point of how I drive trains, like a bird overhead following the train and not in the locomotive's seat. But I do sit in the engineer's seat as well at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    That is the reason that many of us repeat the Tehachapi Pass/Cajon routes in solo mode in Run 8; because it is so immersive in the cab that we don't need trees waving in the breeze or bubbling mountain streams in order to suspend disbelief.
    That pass is interesting only because it must ease the grade in this location by having the only place in the US of a train capable of traveling over itself in the famous loop. But the outside scenery is no match for what you would see in Marias Pass. BTW, I have been there and I know the scenery quite well - bare hills (usually dry grass) dotted with small trees.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    If TSW is just a prettier version of all the TSxxxx's that preceded it then its appeal to the hard-core railroader will wear off sooner rather than later.

    Incidentally, the new version does not continue the "TSxxxx" naming; it is "Train Simulator World"...TSW for short.
    Indeed! In any case, it seems to appear as the best tricked-out version of the pterodactyl TS-1016 they can do before we see the long awaited Unreal engine introduced version of a train simulator that includes the proper physics, including wheel slip, flange squeal in tight curves, etc., and the wonderful bubbling streams flowing down mountain passes!

    And yes, wind causing the trees to sway back a forth! When you play Bethesda's Oblivion or Skyrim, you even see butterflies and insects moving about and yes, bubbling brooks in rocky gorges and active water falls!

    But I won't insist on having those insects appearing in a train simulator!

    Best regards,

    Bill

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    I know that in the UK UKTS launched a programme of putting together a lot of freeware assets, but did the same happen in North America?
    I think that I am the only one who has made a collection of Global Freeware Assets available from my web site, used by Thomas Bontempo's Freeware routes and more of it having been downloaded
    than routes suggests that others have found them useful too !

    Most of MSTS add-ons require that it has been installed from its CDs.

    ORTS also needs much of MSTS for it to work until it has its own Assets, not copyrighted by others, to be used by its own Route Geometry, Routes, Activities and other editors !

    I am not going to be alive to see that happen !

  4. #54
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    Hi Geoff,

    We are still in the infancy. All those names I mentioned didn't have their own track right away. And some never did, concentrating more on either the stuff they knew, or what they felt would get the biggest profit margin. You could buy their rolling stock, and scenery add-ons, but to run it in the first years you needed Marx's track.

    I am in complete agreement that MSTS was practically open, and it's why I'm still in it. Yes it has bugs, yes it hasn't had an update in years (and as itself probably never will). Even now however, hidden features are still being found. And ORTS and TSRE are options, even though they are not finished either.

    I looked briefly when the name changed to RailWorks from RailSim, and there was a 200 dollar us price tag to get in on the Development kit to make content. I haven't looked since.

    There were attempts over the years to develop content on the Freeware-Shareware basis, and it seemed they would change the EULA so as to block further development. You are probably correct that Kuju - Dovetail Games is leaning more to the American Flyer model, than the Lionel model.

    The ownership of pre-existing content plagued many MSTS routes at the start also. Granted the .Bat Install files were intended to save on download size since in order to run the download, one had to have the basic install anyway. What wasn't counted on was the bashing to Java and the MS Operating systems codes that has occurred since.

    Until/unless 3rd party freeware shareware content hits the point of filling a book the size of the Walthers HO catalog from the 1990's, I expect content dependencies from other routes free and payware will remain an issue.

    To compound this issue is the question of what Era. The beginning? (Tom Thumb, Stourbridge Lion, DeWitt Clinton?) The American Era? the 4-4-0's built by the American builders and their equivalent English and European counterparts? (Stirling is one that comes to mind) 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Diesel? A 1920's route won't get very far using Prefab buildings, 40 foot trailers, US Interstate Highway bridges, and 1990's USDOT highway signs. Nor would I fill a 1990's parking lot with Ford Model A's and T's. (well okay, maybe one as the Ye Olde Antique Car Dealership)

    Doug Relyea
    Making stuff that works, using outdated Software on outdated Hardware.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    Wasn't bad was it? ....still the point I was making still seems to have flown over him though

    .......reminds me of a saying from my youth... "so sharp 'e cut 'iself!"
    I just think everyone is taking it all too seriously Geoff.

    Starting to sound like ukts around here.

    On topic, i won't have any interest in TSW untill there is UK content and preferably not modern rubbish (post 1980).

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    I know that in the UK UKTS launched a programme of putting together a lot of freeware assets but did the same happen in North America?
    The Railworks Community Asset Project - aka: RCAP.
    3DTrains - Home of the Feather River and Sherman Hill routes for MSTS

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by drelyea View Post
    I looked briefly when the name changed to RailWorks from RailSim, and there was a 200 dollar us price tag to get in on the Development kit to make content. I haven't looked since.
    There might have been some rumors or rumblings in the early days of RS, but the RS/RW/TS content tools have always been freely provided to developers without having to pay to play.
    3DTrains - Home of the Feather River and Sherman Hill routes for MSTS

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    TSW's first choice of route and Railroad is a blatant attempt to win over the US market first and foremost. The interest in older sims and OR in the UK is WAY lower than there in the US and Canada so they're confident that the market here is "safe"
    I'm sure you are absolutely spot on Geoff, don't forget that with the BNSF licence debacle it's only the Americans that still can download any content that DTG, or, anyone else creates without any hassle, so I'm not surprised that they've built an American route with 3 locomotives, 2 of which are 1st and 2nd Generation and undoubtedly fans over the pond are licking their lips in anticipation at what else DTG will offer them in the future, I'm sure that the American market is quite bouyant, at the moment. Of course, their 3rd party creators have looked after their railfans with top quality content for several years now, developers like Wally Grout from G-TraX, Dick Cowen from Britikits, Jerry Conaway from Virtual Rail Creations, Marc Nelson from 3D Trains, Rich Garber from Allaboard, and many, many, many, more, and they've acquired proper licences from various Railroad companies, everything has been superbly made, they've done things properly and authentically with their knowledge, some of the newer locomotives have proper start up procedures, it's fantastic, they really look after their own over there, so, I'm not surprised that DTG have got to get them on their side first before they cater for others, they need to test the market and who better to get Beta testing than folks who know what they are looking for, does any Brit, or, German, have intimate working knowledge of a GP38-2, SD40-2 or an AC4400W, 'cos, I bloody don't, I wouldn't even know where to start, I bet there are some simmers who wouldn't even know where the door was to get into the cab, how on earth can anyone outside of America BETA test any of these locomotives properly, and I have every confidence that the Americans will soon tell DTG when they've got things wrong, little things like having the correct hornsounds installed and whatever, will be picked up on straightaway, and as long as Mike Rennie has been approached to implement the Dynamic braking, etc, then these locos should operate as they do in real life, let's hope so, anyway, it's not just the pretty graphics that fans look for now, it's the real thing, something DTG will have to be wary of, they won't get another chance if they mess this up.
    I can't see anything British, or, German, coming for a while, or, Australian, or, anywhere else at the moment, however, this isn't the final release, we have to wait until next February for that, but, whatever comes then, we won't get chance to Beta test it first, we'll just have to accept what's in the box, unsure how that is going to go down with everyone else.

    Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
    Last edited by ex-railwayman; 09-05-2016 at 04:13 PM. Reason: re-edit
    i5 4690 3.5 GHz Quad Core CPU, Gigabyte Z97-HD3, 16GB RAM, nVidia GTX1060 6GB, WIN 7 PRO 64-bit.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    There might have been some rumors or rumblings in the early days of RS, but the RS/RW/TS content tools have always been freely provided to developers without having to pay to play.
    LOL! ...as the saying goes Marc "Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument!"

    Trouble is that Scuttlebutt can literarily scuttle those with good intention .....especially when FACTS are hard to come by? If we all had 10c for every bit of misinformation and a $ for every secretive and non communicative developer we could all get together and preserve some REAL trains?
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    Wasn't bad was it? ....still the point I was making still seems to have flown over him though

    .......reminds me of a saying from my youth... "so sharp 'e cut 'iself!"
    'Bye.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

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