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Thread: Question regarding one of Otto's projects

  1. #1

    Default Question regarding one of Otto's projects

    I have a question that I've been pondering for a while.

    Before Otto's passing, he had made many projects and various modifications to MSTS and TS20XX, one of which that has quickly become one of my favorite routes, is the merger of the Northeast corridor from New haven, to NY, and the NJCL, from NY to bay head. This merger which i downloaded and installed quickly, has become my favorite route to run and build activities on. I however have a question about it. Because this was a work of Otto's and not DG, I wanted to ask him if it was ok for me to redistribute the route with scenarios I've been working on for the route? I meant to email him to ask, but unfortunately, he passed away before i got the chance to ask him about it.

    I have the original rwp file he uploaded on his website before it was shut down. And i would love to make this merger available again, but I don't know how to proceed here considering the merger was made by otto, but the routes merged are DTG routes. And i have a pack of scenarios i intend on releasing in the future for the route.

    BTW, just one more question specifically aimed at the NJCL, when the @#@# did the switches become manual? I don't remember this happening when i got the route initally. I don't want to do double duty here. I want to operate trains, not operate and do the dispatchers job.
    Tom
    I am no longer active.
    PM me if you have a specific question.

  2. #2
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    As no one else has responded I would say unless Otto gave explicit permission in his readme or notes, then the route should not be considered for re-distribution. The fact his family have taken the website down seems to indicate they have no interest in perpetuating his creations and I guess we should respect that.
    Vern.

  3. #3

    Default

    I do need to find the original download file to confirm that. It would be a shame if I can't find any documentation or documentation stating no redistributing. What the route is though, if it wasn't clear in my first post, is the New york-new haven line and the NJCL route merged together as one route, so you can go from New haven to Bay head in one sitting, though only at 70mph

    I'm not expecting to find permission, and i wish i thought of this before he passed away, but i didn't and now i might not be able to share one of my favorite creations of his.
    Tom
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    PM me if you have a specific question.

  4. #4
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    I believe that like my own projects, all of Otto's work was done for fun and for free. I don't see a problem with distributing a file that he had made available for all to have.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick8299 View Post
    I believe that like my own projects, all of Otto's work was done for fun and for free. I don't see a problem with distributing a file that he had made available for all to have.
    Shaky ground there Richard. It so happens, another member of the forum adopted that same attitude to all the freeware uploaded to this site and other sites [ this culprit also applied it to payware - but that's definitely outa bounds). So extending the logic of your post to all the creators of freeware [ presumably done for free and fun ] would mean that you see no problem with redistributing their files to anyone, or at the very least it assumes that redistribution of freeware is decided on a case by case basis...With WHO? doing the deciding?

    Read the "Readmes" and other documents that come with freeware and you'll probably find many who do not allow redistribution, others politely require that they be asked before redistribution, and some, as you suggest, do allow redistribution.

    I cannot speak for Otto...can you?


    Quote Originally Posted by railfan101 View Post
    I do need to find the original download file to confirm that...
    Best solution would be what Thomas suggests.
    Last edited by R. Steele; 12-18-2016 at 04:05 PM.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  6. #6

    Default

    Well I did find the original download file i obtained from otto's site before he passed away, but unfortunately there's no mention regarding redistribution. the only documentation within the file was instructions on how to install and use the route. Based on that, and the fact that it is impossible to ask otto, I have decided the best course of action is inaction. I won't do anything with it. Which is a shame really, because he did do a great job merging the routes, something I never learned how to do, even in MSTS.

    With no clear documentation on redistribution and no way to ask for clarification, I'm afraid I can't do anything with the file, except for my own personal use. Unless someone out there was in contact with otto before he passed and had this same question, I'm afraid this is one creation of his that won't be seeing the daylight in public again.
    Tom
    I am no longer active.
    PM me if you have a specific question.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by railfan101 View Post
    Well I did find the original download file i obtained from otto's site before he passed away, but unfortunately there's no mention regarding redistribution. the only documentation within the file was instructions on how to install and use the route. Based on that, and the fact that it is impossible to ask otto, I have decided the best course of action is inaction. I won't do anything with it. Which is a shame really, because he did do a great job merging the routes, something I never learned how to do, even in MSTS.

    With no clear documentation on redistribution and no way to ask for clarification, I'm afraid I can't do anything with the file, except for my own personal use. Unless someone out there was in contact with otto before he passed and had this same question, I'm afraid this is one creation of his that won't be seeing the daylight in public again.
    That's a shame.
    Anyone creating freeware content for any of the sims we all use should take a moment and consider what happens to their work after they catch the last train outa town. Something to consider when making the readme docs.
    Last edited by R. Steele; 12-18-2016 at 06:08 PM.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  8. #8
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    I know there is a version of these routes joined on the TS2017 Workshop on Steam. It goes by the name "North Jersey Coast & New Haven" by Danny Leach.

    I don't know if Otto had any involvement with Danny in the released & final project. You might want to ask Danny if this was the same project. Otto's reach was far beyond the T-S Forum world so there could be a chance he had a hand in it. Never know.
    - Mark -

  9. #9
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    I do have the file you are talking about

    after reading the readme file there is nothing saying it can not be uploaded for download by others

    all it says is that you have the routes from DTG

    if any questions please let me know
    Intel i7-6700k 4.0GHz 32GB memory, GTX TITAN X24GB 384-Bit PCI Express 3.0 SLI bridged Windows 10 Pro 64

  10. #10

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    Unfortunately, with copyright law, if something's not explicitly stated, then you have to assume it isn't allowed.

    Some of the members here have had contact with Otto's son. His estate can grant permissions. I'd suggest pursuing a blanket approval that way before making assumptions.

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