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Thread: Physics

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Australia
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    Default Physics

    Hi,

    I'm not a 'pioneer' so did not participate in the 'beta' however I took the liberty of registering on the beta forums. Due to the open nature of their forum and the beta I'm sure it'd be OK if I share some info posted to the forums. Here are a few quotes from Matt Peddlesden (TSW Senior Producer) regarding the, at present, unrealistic physics:

    "Lots of things to tweak and get right here - the physics aren't quite right yet and they're still being worked on. Thanks for the feedback and your detailed test reports though, the engineer working on these can use these to help improve things."

    "One example of where the sim is not quite set up correctly at the moment is simply making sure that the amount of brake force that a given pressure from the brake cylinder exerts is correct - and I think that's where it's primarily wrong, but I will defer to the engineers working on it to validate and improve as they go."

    "We have a much revised power-train for the throttle handle that works much more realistically than the one in the beta, but it has a number of issues to be resolved so it couldn't go in. Short answer though is - that one is almost resolved already."

    "Brakes - someone is looking at those, it looks like it's largely just the amount of brake force that is applied that's wrong."

    "SimuGraph itself is working well, but just as with any tool it requires the right settings and we're still learning how to find the right data, where as TS1 was much more about putting in values that effected the right results, TSW is more about the hard engineering and getting all the right values in the internals - and when they're right, everything else will flow out from that."

    "I will double check but i think that the adhesion on the track is currently at a default 1.0 - so it will grip like cogwheels I think this is just a track property thing that hasn't been done yet - i'll check and make sure that gets looked at though.

    We actually have some really awesome support for slip and spin, i'm not sure why its not working in the beta - but it measures the temperature of the wheels as they slip and it introduces a spectacular spark particle effect if you spin for too long. It doesn't melt a gouge in to the track though, can't have everything

    It will even spin individual axles if appropriate depending on what they are doing, plus you can define specific adhesion values at different parts of the route so if you have some areas that are known to be adhesion blackspots then you can set those up as well."


    I'm quite pleased to read these comments by Matt Peddlesden re the physics. Appears he's very confident in delivering to 'us' a train sim that will finally combine realistic graphics and physics.

    Fingers Crossed !

    Steve.

  2. #2

    Default

    I have to admit that I'm now a little more optimistic. I'm still holding out though to see what the full game will have before I jump in. For me, the physics are the primary point.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Hanover Park, Il., USA.
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    Default

    Good news indeed. Knowing they are open to, and willing to improve only lends itself to positive outcomes, and growth in interest.
    Good luck to the team, looking forward to watching TSW progress.
    Neil

    Here at home, in the railroad mayhem capital of the world.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Beaver Falls,PA
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    Default

    Well, I did participate in the "beta", and although its still somewhat a work in progress, I don't understand why it took others (beta users) to see how "off" the very basic physics are. Right from the get go, you could tell they weren't right. All the feedback from the TSW people is very promising, but I thought train handling would have been much better than it is right now. From their track record with that part, you'd thought that would have been at the very top of the "to do" list.

    I really do hope they get it right this time. Too many previous failed attempts. If they get the train handling characteristics to work as good as this sim looks, they will definitely have a true winner.

  5. #5

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    I Agree.
    I also hoped that physics would be much better to the beta version.
    But Matt's answer is very good and it really feels like Dovetail to do everything in their power to get this right. Even if it is not entirely good when they release the simulator, they will probably keep going until it's good.

    Matt wrote
    the engineers who worked on the physics engine have spent hundreds of hours on it in total.

    so they take seriously physics this time
    Last edited by jorgen3; 12-25-2016 at 05:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    Yamba, N.S.WALES, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgen3 View Post
    .....Matt wrote
    the engineers who worked on the physics engine have spent hundreds of hours on it in total.
    So DTG are now referring to programmers as "engineers", are they?!

    "Hundreds of hours"?
    Well, even if they had 5 programmers doing the physics coding working for 999 hours in total (that's "hundreds" of hours...anything more goes into the "thousands of hours") and for a basic 38-hour pay-week.......that's a mere 6 weeks spent on the physics.

    Not really impressive.
    I've worked with programmers who spent months (thousands of hours, in other words) writing and debugging code for simpler tasks than this!
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  7. #7
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    Apr 2011
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    So DTG are now referring to programmers as "engineers", are they?!

    I may be wrong here Bruce but my interpretation of the use of the word 'Engineer' refers to an actual train driver.

    Matt states "SimuGraph itself is working well" which implies that the programming itself is sound and it's the real world inputs that go into that that still require work either due to incorrect data being used or pesky bugs.

    I believe the second developer diary refers to the use of Engineers "from the actual railroads themselves" which somewhat validates my thoughts on this.

    Steve.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Beaver, Pennsylvania, USA.
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    Merry Christmas Seagoon. Thought I might try to cheer you up.
    Bob Artim
    Owner of Railworks America
    6th gen i7 [email protected] - 16 gig ram - nVidia 970 with 4 gig - 5Tb of HDDs - Water cooled - Win 10 - Dual Samsung S24D390 HD monitors

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by artimrj View Post
    Merry Christmas Seagoon. Thought I might try to cheer you up.
    Bob, I'm not unhappy....not by a longshot.
    But after more than 16 years around train simulations I am something of a sceptic when it comes to developer's announcements which are filled with hyperbole and promises.

    So if my cynicism is irking you I make no apologies, because nine times out of ten it has proven to be justified.
    Should the retail release of TSW prove to be "Run 8 with graphics", then I will give thanks but until then I will hedge my bets.
    Last edited by seagoon; 12-25-2016 at 09:39 PM. Reason: Grammar
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Beaver, Pennsylvania, USA.
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    Default

    Nah it doesn't irk me, I find it quite humorous. I come here and read everything everyday. Just trying to cheer you up on Christmas day, not make you happy.
    Bob Artim
    Owner of Railworks America
    6th gen i7 [email protected] - 16 gig ram - nVidia 970 with 4 gig - 5Tb of HDDs - Water cooled - Win 10 - Dual Samsung S24D390 HD monitors

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