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Thread: New TSRE route editor tips & tricks

  1. #1

    Default

    Moderator Note:

    This thread is being pinned and at Vince's request, will be a one-way conversation for the most part. Posts from other will be periodically cleaned out to keep it as intended.

    If you have questions or topics you'd like to see discussed, please PM them to Vince or start up a new thread in the MSTS Route Design forum.
    Last edited by eolesen; 06-30-2017 at 10:55 AM.

  2. #2

    Default New TSRE route editor tips & tricks

    All,

    I have been for the past month or so reworking track in the Zoo Interlocking at the Philadelphia Terminal on the PRR-East Region route exclusively using the new route editor, TSRE5 available here

    Two reasons for doing this ;
    1. The Zoo Interlocking was built with the available tracks at the time which left it as a work in progress when the proper track sections became available. All needed track sections are now available. Additionally it had become almost impossible to edit the PRR-East using the Microsoft/Kuju Route Editor. Save times over a minute and frequent crashes made working with the route more pain than gain.

    2 . I badly needed to learn the new route editor before continuing my build on the Long Island Rail Road. I mean FULLY explore ALL features (many!) of the new editor TSRE5 before building out along the Oyster Bay Line which now ends at East Williston.

    After I released the LIRR Beta I puttered around but found myself making little progress as I didn't fully understand the inner working of TSRE, spending too much time in the manual looking up whatever and not making much progress. Besides I am just a bit burned out having devoted working waaay over my quota to get the LIRR released before year end 2016.

    Sooo . . . Being dissatisfied with the look and 'feel' of the Zoo Interlocking I decided a good way to learn the new TSRE Editor would be to mod the Prr Terminal zone, about 2 tiles worth of very complicated track.

    Turned out this is the prefect arena to practice with TSRE as generally all the track is there except it badly needed a bit of re-configuration . . .so I pulled all track out on the Philadelphia Tile!

    So in keeping with community standards I of course decided to pass on any trick and tips I 'discovered' as I happily mod through the 'Zoo' Interlocking (aptly named btw) Hundreds of levers on the Zoo machine. Anyone know exactly how many? I don't but the map is scary! Have a look here if you're curious.

    Okay verbage exausted, Time for my first TSRE Tip:

    ++ Elevating track. We remember the 'snap' elevation settings to get a smooth gradient transition. 0.150, 0.300, 0.450, 0.600 and so on.

    Rotating Tracks for Gradient

    1. Place a track section in TSRE

    2. Press keyboard 'R'. This puts just installed track section in ROTATE Mode.

    3. Holding the keyboard CTRL key down, tap either NumPad 8 for up or NumPad 2 for down.

    4. The track will elevate or decend in 0.1 per-cent steps with each key tap of 8 or 2.

    5. 0.1 grade per-cent is equal to 1.0 per-mille which is equal to 0.058 degrees (MSTS measurment) steps.

    6. All three of these gradient values are displayed on the TSRE panel, left side.
    Thank you Goku!

    7. If you want a very smooth a gradient transition, use 1.5 meter track sections with each sections elevation greater or less than the previous track section by 0.1 per-cent or 1.0 per-mille or 0.058 degrees.
    Less smooth but still looking good you can elevate / descend in 0.2 percent steps.

    regards,
    Last edited by Vince; 06-26-2017 at 07:58 PM.
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Warwick, Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Hi Vince,

    According to a 1971 interclocking diagram , it had 135 working levers, 45 spare levers and 47 spare spaces. No doubt it has more working levers during the 1940's and 50s.

    http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Pr..._nyc_main.html

    A Tower at Pennsylvania Station in NYC had 141 working levers. So it's possible that Zoo had more at some point.

    Jean Gagne
    Warwick, Qc, Canada

  4. #4

    Default

    You're welcome Marc. I will add a blurb here:

    Until you get used to working with gradients get down close and personal as you adjust track grade. Entering (typing) into the gradient dialog panel sometimes produces unwanted results. This is probably my not fully understanding how it works.

    For instance, when track is flipped, ('T' key) **['X']the track grade 'slope' changes AS YOU TYPE EACH CHARACTER into the grade dialog. I feel this is an error.
    I'd 'prefer' to enter what I want, review it and then an 'OK' button to set the grade, as in the Transform Panel.
    ++correction added

    Example: I'll set (type in ) a grade of 20 in the permille field ( 2.0 percent ) and then when I have to select the already selected track section ( why do I have to re-select) in order to use the 'Z' key to add track section to the TDB. (yellow lines)The gradient field 20 permille becomes 19.9998. It seems to have a arithmetic error. I want 20 permille and I get 19.99989 something? It's required to have the editor hold the grade a designer wants.

    Additionally I can't figure why if I select a track section (Blue Outlined) why do I have to select ('E' key or Select Button) it again . . .and again, the need to select just about any object multiple times to perform multiple concurrent operations.
    1. select and use the Transform feature.
    2. now select the already selected (blue outlined) object if you need to move the object into a final position.
    Seems a bit silly but this editor is a work-in-progress so I have gotten used to having to select over and over again as just a very small nit. Annoying but not a show stopper.

    The TRANSFORM panel.
    Very very helpful. A great feature only lacking a detailed method of Operation.

    How many times have you wanted to align a platform, bridge, berm, to track on a grade? Me? A LOT!
    Once I figured out (sort of) how Transform worked it is a super tool!
    I urge and recommend experimentation. Post results here. One day we can put all these 'found-out-about-features' in a FAQ.
    Note that the Transform Panel has OK --- Cancel buttons. You enter your numbers and OK does the job. How about the same thing for the Track Grade Panel? That would eliminate the track or road moving until you are ready.

    One last nit to pick: Dynamic Track . . . . I don't see how (other than tapping the keys I use for grade) to set a gradient for DT?
    I do know that holding the Ctrl key down as I tap the NumPad 2 or 8 keys for down / up slope of 1 permille (0.1 percent) grade changes so I just count off key taps.
    A display of grade as is done for 'normal' track is preferred.
    Now add a Grade Panel OK button to set the typed in grade and we'll be cooking.

    I add a well deserved BRAVO! to Goku for your hard work.
    regards,
    Last edited by Vince; 01-08-2018 at 10:41 PM.
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  5. #5

    Default

    Tip-O-the-Day

    The handiest key combo in TSRE: Ctrl + Z. Undo last operation(s).

    You're going to be making mistakes learning TSRE and this shortcut will make your day!
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  6. #6

    Default

    Tip(s)-O-the-Day

    When swapping track sections in and out it's better to set TSRE to NOT automatically add track into the database.
    The yellow lines over the track are a graphic representation of the TDB.

    To toggle Auto-Add TDB ON/OFF With nothing selected press Ctrl + Q

    This prevents the auto-add to TDB when a track is de-selected.

    This is good practice because if you move a track section without first removing the yellow TDB lines will create a MIS-MATCH between the TDB and the WORLD file.
    This is a well known 'Out of Sync' condition and it's a real pain to repair.
    At this time there is no indication of Ctrl + Q being on or off.
    Before beginning editing you should test to see if Auto-TDB add is on or off. How?

    When a Auto-Add TDB is ON, the Yellow TDB indicator lines will come ON when the track is deselected.
    There is no indication of Auto-TDB at this editor release level other that the above procedure. Goku is aware of the no indication.

    Another use for the 'Q' key: Allowing easy installing underground or on up-in-the-sky bridges.
    With nothing selected press SHIFT + Q

    This allows you to place the cursor ( pointer ) on any object for the purpose of placing a track or road section.
    The cursor normally 'sticks' to the terrain. Shift + Q allows the cursor to Stick to Anything.
    This IS covered in the Manual.
    There is an error in the Manual for the entry on this in section /rewobj.html page 1 of 4 Item 5. 'Shift +' is missing.
    There is no indication of Shift + Q being on or off however the behavior of the cursor provides a positive indication.

    ++ When placing track underground as for a tunnel, first check 'Hide Terrain Shape' in the View Menu
    ++ Now, position the cursor very close to the end on the previously installed track section to place the next track section.
    ++ For new track to SNAP to previously installed track, the previous track section MUST have the Yellow TDB lines present.
    ++ To add a newly placed track section to the TDB when in manual (Ctrl + Q) mode:
    1.Select the track. Blue outline appears.
    2. press the 'Z' key. Yellow line appears & track is added to the TDB. Save to make final.
    Do NOT move the track if TDB lines are present

    + Dragging track underground? Don't try it!
    + Misplace or lose a track underground? (which dragging is sure to do) Press DELETE and do over!

    regards,
    Last edited by Vince; 08-17-2017 at 06:31 PM. Reason: format
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  7. #7

    Default Enter gradient by typing but use 2 place decimal.

    Tip-O-the-Day

    When manually entering the numbers into the gradient section of the panel you must use a two place decimal,

    1 percent (per hundred) is entered as 1.00 and is equal to 10 permille (per thousand) which must be entered as 10.00 in the permille field.

    0.1 percent is entered as 0.10 or 1.00 permille.
    TSRE will strip off leading and trailing zeros when saved but this does NOT change the gradient values.

    Practice!

    Either may be used but the PERMILLE is much easier to understand. Here's a little ASCII chart

    WHAT YOU ENTER IN THE GRADE FIELDS


    PERMILLE---------PERCENT

    1.00----------------------0.100
    2.00----------------------0.200
    3.00----------------------0.300
    4.00----------------------0.400
    5.00----------------------0.500
    6.00----------------------0.600
    7.00----------------------0.700
    8.00----------------------0.800
    9.00----------------------0.900
    10.00--------------------1.00
    GRADIENT EXAMPLE A (Custom).jpg
    For whatever reason if you enter lets say 6 permille or .6 percent when you select the track/road the 6 permille changes to 5.9996 permille or 0.59996 percent.
    Make sense? I dunno' but it is what it is.

    USE TWO PLACE DECIMALS IN EITHER FIELD AND IT WILL SAVE EXACTLY AS ENTERED.
    IF YOU FAIL TO USE 2 PLACE DECIMAL TSRE WILL ROUND OFF NUMBERS AND YOU END UP AS SHOWN IN PREVIOUS PARAGRAPH AND IN THE ATTACHED PICTURE.

    [My emphasis added]

    You can see why I like using the PERMILLE field but I admit I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it.
    I had never heard of permille when Goku brought it up and I thought it was a typo for PERMILE!!! Ouch!
    Goku says Europe has been using permille for 40 years or so because there is more precision. I AGREE!

    Regards and Have Fun!
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  8. #8

    Default

    Something not right.
    1. I place a tracksection 1d1000r. I also tested with a 100m Strt . . . same result so reversing with 'X' is NOT the cause.
    2. I 'X' as I want curve to right.
    3. I want 2% downgrade grade (20 permille)
    4. Into the percent (%) line I type -2 the track moves in the intended down direction.
    5. I have -2 so I type ',' . . .THE TRACK MOVES DOWN AGAIN!
    6. I have -2. so now I type '0' . . .Again the track moves down AGAIN!!
    7. I have -2.0 and type in the last zero. The friggin track AGAIN moves down. Something VERY wrong here.
    I recall this has happened in the past but don't remember if it 'fixed' itself or what. When I wrote the above tutorial everything worked as expected EXCEPT I WAS INSTALLING TRACK SOUTH TO NORTH!
    That's the only thing I was doing differently. If it continues tomorrow I will post a trouble report to Goku.

    Oh, and by the way . . .At step 7. I figure to backspace through what I had typed in, the '-2.00' So . . .now . . . . .
    With EACH PRESS of the backspace key the track continues it's downward travel and when the final '-' is backspaced I end up with the track pointing down at about a 75 degree angle . . . a bit steeper grade that I wanted. WEIRD!
    So be REALLY careful when setting up grades . . . There is mischief afoot.

    editadd
    Further testing reveals that this only happens when the track section is 'flipped' or reversed by use of the 'T' key.
    This key performs the same function as did the 'X' key in the MSTS RE.

    It should be remembered that once you 'flip' a track section, ALL following track sections placed will also be 'flipped'!

    +++ Press the [Reset Rotation]button with the track selected to reset to default track section alignment when placed.
    +++ The track you do this with will physically reset to it's default placement alignment.

    regards,
    Last edited by Vince; 08-17-2017 at 06:42 PM. Reason: format
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  9. #9

    Default

    Tip-O-The-Day

    The Transform Panel - Specifically The ROTATE (lower) part of the panel - What's it's function?

    Answer:
    It will ROTATE or TRANSLATE an object reference to the objects PIVOT point. Google Sketch-Up calls this the models ORIGIN. It's the point where the Red,Green & Blue axis' join at a point. Just a different name for the same thing. We will discuss the ROTATE function in this post.

    ++ Some models have a PIVOT point in the center. A rail car (wagon) is an example of a center pivot point.
    ++ It does not matter where the pivot is located. That is entirely up to the model builder.
    ++ A TRACK or ROAD section has it's PIVOT at one end of the track / road section. KUJU's decision.
    ++ The track / road can be rotated around and / or sloped up or down, all referenced to the PIVOT.

    ++ When an object is ROTATED or SLOPED up / down grade, the grade angle and rotation is specified in DEGREES. In the Grade Panel this angle is referred in several different ways all meaning the same thing.

    ++ When a TRACK is initially placed it's pointing NORTH, 0 degrees.
    ++ If you rotate it +90 degrees the track is now pointing EAST.
    ++ If you rotate it -90 degrees the track is now pointing WEST.
    ++ If you rotate it +270 degrees the track also ends up pointing WEST.
    ++ ALL the above examples start with the track in it's initially placed position pointing NORTH. BUT.....!!
    You may enter a value in the Transform Panel AT ANY TIME you need to 'nudge' it just a bit to achieve the alignment you want.
    If the track is say pointing SOUTH and you need to rotate is just a few degrees, that's what you would enter into the 'Y' axis field

    Now the Transform Panel Examine the lower half of the panel, the ROTATE Section.
    Three Fields: 'X' 'Y' 'Z'
    TransformPanel.jpg
    X is along the LENGTH of the Track Section. Enter a 1 here and the track rotates (slopes) up by 1 degree.
    Y is the vertical axis. The track rotates about (around) this axis.
    Z is across the track . . .Not exactly sure what this might dom as I have not used this field. Maybe TILT the track from side to side? Experiment! Let us know what YOU find!

    Practical Uses for Transform

    Have you ever had to join track sections on a grade? Tough, especially if you're joining to an already installed section.
    Getting that gradient EXACTLY right can be a bitch. You've been using the grade adjust panel but exact joining just won't work.
    Lets say you need to raise one end of the track by less than a centimeter (about 3/8ths of an inch) use Transform!

    Conditions:
    Track section selected, Z key so NO yellow TDB lines show for track section
    1. On the Transform Panel enter 0.01 (1 centimeter) in the 'X' field and press 'OK'
    The track end opposite the pivot end will elevate by 1 centimeter. Bingo! Or . . . .lets say that 0.01 was too much so you need to slope it down just a bit, by half the amount you raised it..
    Enter -0.005 in the 'X' field This lowers the track by half the amount you raised it in step 1 above.

    Regards,
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  10. #10

    Default

    Tip-O-The-Day
    Making the Grade - Transitions from Level to a 2.5% or 25 permille Up Slope
    From the "This Works For Me Department"

    Nothing annoys trainsim folks as much as a LAZY route builder, especially in the track laying process.
    I see routes with grade transitions from level to 3.0% or 30 permille! That kind of work really sucks! Looks terrible too!

    ++ The track length you use determines the DISTANCE it will take to arrive at the gradient you want.
    ++ For a quick rise you would use the shortest length available. Generally an A1t1mStrt section is the shortest track section you would use.
    You CAN use any length down to a A1t0_3m section (0.3m)

    DO NOT use any track section shorter than 0.3 meters! The A1t0_2mStrt section has been known to cause problems with database rebuilds as this length is within the allowable placement error distance.
    IOW track CAN be mis-aligned by as much as 0.2m and still join but with a terrible gap. The 0.2 m strt track being within that allowable mis-align sometimes but not always, gets missed during a rebuild. Trouble!

    So with the new editor TSRE5, here's how to make nice smooth grade transitions, in this example from level to a 2.5% or 25 permille up slope grade using 1.5 meter track sections.
    Installing the first track beginning the grade transition using all straight track sections.

    We use the 'Q' Place New Key and the 'E' Select Mode key a lot during this exercise.
    1. Be sure the level track in place has the Yellow TDB line over it. Track will not snap (join) with the TDB line present.
    Never move a track section with the Yellow TDB line present! If by accident you do move a track with TDB lines present, DELETE that track immediately and re-do the operation without the TDB yellow line.

    It's MUCH safer when precision installing track (like on a grade) to have MANUAL Add to TDB active. This is toggled by pressing the Ctrl + Q keys. At the present time there is NO indication of this!

    Normal operation is Auto-TDB add active where the Yellow TDB lines appear when the new track is de-selected or the next section is added.
    You don't want that because with auto TDB on moving track is NOT permitted.
    You can add the yellow TDB lines ANY TIME so best leave it off until you're ready.
    Remember that the yellow TDB line HAS to be on to install and join the next track section!
    The order will be:
    1. Place track,
    2. Set grade.
    3. Check your work.
    4. Press 'Z' to turn on Yellow TDB line.
    5. Save. now back to step 1. and so on.

    SETTING THE GRADIENT
    1. Track placed. . . Do NOT touch any keys or use the cursor to select/highlight any of the fields in the Garde Panel.
    Doing so will result in much strange things happen that WILL confound you as happened to me and described in my post on 07-02-2017, 10:24 PM in this thread.

    2. Press the R (rotate) key. Now since we are going up-slope the NumPad '8' (up) key will be used.

    3. While holding the Ctrl key pressed each press (tap) of the 8 key will elevate the track by 0.1% or 1.0 permille.

    4. So first section is 0.1%, next section you tap the 8 key twice which gets you 0.2%, next section 0.3%.
    This is a VERY, VERY slow gradual grade transition that will take 10 track sections to go from level to a 1.0% or 10 permille grade slope. High speed (over 200kph) rail would use this sort of transition.

    5. I use what I call a Plus 2 transition.
    A 0.3% grade at 0.173 degrees is very close to the old MSTS 0.150 degree grade start angle where you went 0.150d, 0.300d, 0.450d, 0.600d 'snap' grade angles we all learned.
    So going from level to 0.3%, 0.5%, 0.7%, 0.9%, 1.1% works out in MSTS degree notation to 0.173d, 0.297d, 0.401d, 0.515d, 0.633 and so on up the line.
    Steeper transition? Go plus 3 . . . or plus 4 if you wish (these refer to 'key taps' of the NumPad 8 (up) key.
    Experiment!

    Sand in the Gears . . .There is a thing that happens to the 'Tap Up to the Grade' using the NumPad 8 Key.
    As to go the next step from 0.3% or 8 permille, it DOES NOT go to 0.4 It steps to 0.399999! Yikes . . .
    And next up step it goes to 0.499998, then 0.599996. I have NO IDEA why this is so. Perhaps Goku will find time to enlighten the masses. Don't be put off by this as the difference between 0.4 and 0.399999 is so small it does not make the grade 'wrong'. It's a microscopic difference, a 10 thousandth of a percent and can be ignored.
    You CAN make it EXACTLY 4.0% by manually typing into the fields but things can get very weird if a key is pressed out of turn.
    Example of Weird: I set the grade by typing in the fields. Oops, went too far and want to step back. I press the decimal point (period key) and the grade increases. I backspace, the grade steepens. No matter what I do or which key I press the grade keeps increasing and soon I'm looking at the track sticking straight in the air. What, a 100% grade? You'll need to experiment on a small 1 tile route to figure out why and how this happens with an incorrect key press. Too much to explain here. A small practice route is the answer

    It took me all of twenty (20) minutes to create a 1 tile flat terrain route where I practiced all I have described.
    I respectfully suggest you do the same.
    Of course you should have the TSRE Manual printed out and in a binder for reference. Without the manual? Well unless you have a perfect photographic memory, you WILL fail.
    If you are serious about learning the new editor you must have the manual handy and a computer monitor is NOT the way. Have fun.

    Questions? Start a thread!
    Please don't clutter up this one. It's supposed to be a reference no discussion.
    I will post next a full Grade Chart with all three grade notations for easy reference.
    Regards,
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

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