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Thread: Anglecocks/Brakes

  1. #1

    Default Anglecocks/Brakes

    Pardon if this information is somewhere, but I sure couldn't find it. I've always ran road trains with Run8 so far, but now I'm getting into switching. If I back in to a siding and couple up to a few cars, and make sure the anglecock on the last car (that I'm picking up) is closed, then open the two anglecocks where I just coupled, why does it dump my air and cause "PCS Open"?

    I would think that when I have that last car's anglecock closed and then open the two where I just coupled, I still have a closed system, and the pressure would just need to build back up.

    FWIW, I'm sure I'm not missing an open line somewhere. I've done this over and over with 3-4 or 8-10 or 15-20 cars just to try and figure it out.

    The Run8 "Brakes" pdf says this:

    "When you desire to couple onto some units, it's safe to make sure your anglecock is closed, then couple onto the units, then open the anglecocks on both of the couplers that have just been coupled."

    Surprises me that they don't mention that the rear cock on the last car you're picking up could be open.


    Thanks,
    -Glenn

    PS: Are railcars not like trucks in that no air = brakes locked? After reading the brakes tutorial, I assumed when you disconnected the air from cars, they would first react as if it were a brake pipe reduction, causing brakes to apply, and then the brakes would stay on as pressure drops even further, to the point that the car has no air at all.

    Edit: I just read on wikipedia about the no-air situation. It looks like no reservoir air = no brakes. Ouch! I did see that there's an emergency reservoir, but I guess that's a one-last-chance thing. So, does that mean handbrakes have to be set for parked cars?
    Last edited by gltech; 07-27-2017 at 11:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    470

    Default

    I will try to answer as simply as possible. As for adding a cut of cars, you did everything correct except opening the anglecock all the way. You should "partially open" the anglecock in order to let the pressure build up slowly until it gets to about 45 or 50 psi, then open the rest of the way. Run 8 has build their physics to be so realistic that fully opening the anglecock drops the brake pipe pressure quickly enough to mimic an emergency application.

    As for the rest, the reduction in the brake pipe causes air to be released from the reservoir into the brake cylinder thus applying the brakes. Eventually, without regenerating air, the rail cars would leak or bleed off all their air and then the brakes would release. When cars are spotted they should have a few hand brakes set to make sure they don't roll away. In Run 8, if they are stopped, they will not be able to move until someone takes control of them again such as hooking up to them. It's still a good idea to set the brakes so you don't get unexpected movement when hooking up to them, especially if on a server.

    I hope this helps.
    Doug B.
    Eugene, Oregon, USA - Pacific Standard Time ( - 8:00 UTC )
    3.4 ghz Intel i7-3770 quad core processor, 8 gigs RAM, 2 gig AMD Radeon HD 7850

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada.
    Posts
    2,990

    Default

    A couple other things you can do while switching and it depends on what you are switching and where. Normally when you are at slow speeds in a yard it's a good idea to bleed off the air (CTRL F7). To do this simply close the anglecock behind the last unit, and then bleed the air. This is also good for kicking (when Run8 lets you - it's a bit finicky in V2) and certainly for humping.

    This same method can apply in slow speed local switching or areas that don't have much hills etc. I don't know what the official rule is but as long as I feel safe with a small enough train I'll use dynamics and bleed air exclusively to make switching easier. Longer runs or train I almost always use air.

    One last thing on observing the air. You can observe the chart SHIFT FZ until you see all the EEE and dashes. When you first have a partial open depending on the size of the train you'll see some colors fluctuate for how much air is moving through. You can also monitor your flow to see if it settles down. Normally it's safe to go full open from partial after 30 seconds. The differential in the sudden pressure change as mentioned will trip the emergency dump if your too quick not to let the air level out.

    Thanks

    Sean

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks for the advice guys. Let me try to explain what happens now. When I use "Partially Open" the air doesn't dump (well, see edit below), but the flow gauge pegs and stays there (no matter how long I wait -- I had a sandwich a while ago and let it sit there for 30 minutes). So when I go from "Partially Open" to "Open" it dumps and I get "PCS Open".

    Ok, you would say something's open somewhere, right? Nope, I can start over and do exactly the same thing -- couple up, then set the cocks to partial. Again, flow pegs and stays there. BUT if I just close one of the cocks and then set it right back to partial, flow rises temporarily and then drops back down as expected, and all's well and I can change the cocks to "Open". I wish I could make a video of this so you could see it -- is there free video capture I can use?
    Thanks,
    -Glenn

    Edit: I should say that "when I use 'Partially Open' the air doesn't dump" is not entirely true. "Partially Open" still dumps the air unless I have the service brake applied.
    Last edited by gltech; 07-28-2017 at 04:07 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    Here's a video capture of what I'm talking about. Watch the "CFM" when I do "Partially Open" the first time, then again the second time. That's without touching anything else.

    http://www.glt1.com/gl/misc/GltechRu...s20170728a.mp4

    BTW, the first thing you see is me closing the rear cock on the last car of the cut just added. Then the other two couplers are where I had just coupled. There were 2 cars in the cut added.
    Last edited by gltech; 07-28-2017 at 05:45 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    470

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    Couple of questions. What version of Run 8 are you running? The first main screen will have a date code at the center top of screen. Should be V2 06.02.2017. I think there may have been some kind of anglecock/brake pipe issue in a previous version. Just curious and I could be wrong about that too.

    Also, just to be sure, have you checked all the other anglecocks or used the F7 cheat to automatically reset them? I would like to test this on my system to make sure it's not something with your copy of the sim but I would need you to either email me the train file or list the exact make up of your train.
    Doug B.
    Eugene, Oregon, USA - Pacific Standard Time ( - 8:00 UTC )
    3.4 ghz Intel i7-3770 quad core processor, 8 gigs RAM, 2 gig AMD Radeon HD 7850

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks Doug. The version that shows on the first main screen is "V2 06.02.2017".

    In the video, I had just backed a train with 4 geeps and 5 cars into a siding and coupled up with 2 more cars. Here's a screenshot of the setup right before I backed up and coupled.

    http://www.glt1.com/gl/misc/GltechRu...s20170729a.jpg

    Car #s from front to rear after coupling up:
    SP7611
    DRGW3186
    DRGW3168
    SP7628
    SPFE274516
    SFRC110535
    SPFE226119
    SPFE891357
    SFRC884237
    SFRC509467
    SPFE129425


    I did a World save right where the screenshot is, and kept reloading it for 2 days trying to figure out the problem before starting this thread. It's part of the way through doing the pick-ups and set-outs for "0 1 AA AAB SS 2017 EDISON LOCAL", specifically the pick-ups at "King Pack Potato".
    Last edited by gltech; 07-29-2017 at 05:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    470

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    I'm playing around with this so I'll get back to you when I have some time to experiment.
    Doug B.
    Eugene, Oregon, USA - Pacific Standard Time ( - 8:00 UTC )
    3.4 ghz Intel i7-3770 quad core processor, 8 gigs RAM, 2 gig AMD Radeon HD 7850

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    470

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    So I did a lot of testing. Sorry it took so long. The only way I could get it to act the same way that you experienced was to hang and EOT on the last car but not close the anglecock and using the train brake. I don't know if you were even using and EOT, I didn't see one in your video. One thing that surprised me was that you were switching and using the train brake. Not that there's anything wrong with that, to each his own, but if I can get away with it I always just use the independent brake and then set up and charge the brake pipe before making the run back to the yard.

    Let me know any more details. There may be a bug of some sort causing the brake pipe not to charge properly under some circumstances but we need as much detail as possible before reporting it as a bug so that John G. can fix it.
    Doug B.
    Eugene, Oregon, USA - Pacific Standard Time ( - 8:00 UTC )
    3.4 ghz Intel i7-3770 quad core processor, 8 gigs RAM, 2 gig AMD Radeon HD 7850

  10. #10

    Default

    Thanks again Doug. Please don't give this a lot of worry, as it's not the end of the world. I was just trying to get good at doing everything as realistically as possible.

    FYI, I never used the train/service brake for switching either. It was just something I tried at one point to see if it made a difference. If you watch the HUD at the top of the video I posted earlier, you'll see the only the indie brake is on. And to complicate things more, what I said before about "Partially Open" working when the service brakes are on -- that doesn't work all the time, just sometimes.

    I've been playing with it some more and here's a possible clue. Say I have a train with all the cocks set correctly and a fully charged brake pipe from end to end. If I close the cocks between the last and next-to-last car, then open the rear cock of the last car, I should get a rush of air out of that last car, but the rest of my train should not be affected, right? Then I should be able to close the rear cock of the last car and partially open up the cocks between the last and next-to-last car and that last car's air would charge back up, and I would once again have a fully charged train again, right? I only ask because I've been playing with that and it seems my problem can be duplicated that way. In the 2nd half of that scenario, once I close the rear cock of the last car and open the ones between the last and next-to-last cars, the flow pegs and stays there.

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