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Thread: Editing Tools might not be on the cards, now!!!

  1. #1
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    Default Editing Tools might not be on the cards, now!!!

    I've just read this snippet of information written by someone over on the UKTS forum which might be of interest to you forum members -

    And I quote ''I heard Matt say at some point, probably on his stream, that he can't just give us the tools that DTG are using as it would also require giving us DTG's code as well and that's not going to happen.''

    Now, I never personally saw the stream in question, but, I have no reason to consider this as being dubious, so, if Matt Peddlesden says they aren't going to give us customers/end-users any editting tools for TSW, then, that puts a whole different complexion on things, however, my own thoughts have not really changed from day one in as much that I don't know many other game developers that give customers editing tools for PC games they release to the public like what Electronic Arts offer, Madden NFL, NBALive, the F1 series, Battlefield 1, Need for Speed, Mass Effect Andromeda, for a start, even though they aren't on the UE4 engine, the philosophy is giving customers an out of the box game ready to play with no need for us consumers to poke around inside the inner workings, and it's been like that for years. Paul Jackson and his team look as though they have just carried that ideaology on into Train Simulator World, making it primarily for XBox gamers who just want a 'plug in and play' game, it isn't for the real hard nut fanatical train hobbyist core group and was never likely to be, the major selling point is graphical quality, just like all those games I mentioned above, they all have superb graphics, Mass Effect Andromeda is staggeringly fantastic to look at, so it sells.

    And of course, the most serious aspect of all of this is that we, the customer/end-user/consumer, needs some legal clarification by DTG if this lack of editting tool feature information is true, or, not, we demand it, don't you all think, it surely can't be just swept under the carpet as not being important enough to warrant a mention, but, if it is true they obviously haven't advertised this as it would affect sales!!!

    Cheerz. Steve.
    Last edited by ex-railwayman; 11-07-2017 at 04:42 AM. Reason: re-edit
    i5 4690 3.5 GHz Quad Core CPU, Gigabyte Z97-HD3, 16GB RAM, nVidia GTX1060 6GB, WIN 7 PRO 64-bit.

  2. #2
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    Steve, I think the poster on UKTS misinterpreted Matt's comment. Matt specifically spoke of "the tools that DTG developers use". Probably those tools, and the ones they use for TS2XXX, include features or instructions that reveal proprietary information. This does not mean that DTG might not produce tools for users that do not reveal proprietary information.

    Regards, Marty

  3. #3
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    DTG and it's predecessors, always said that the payware routes and scenarios released by them for TS20xx.

    Used exactly the same editors that we do.
    Yma O Hyd

  4. #4

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    I was on that stream and what he said (paraphrasing) was that DTG can't issue the tools in their current form because doing so would give people access to the source code. What he made clear was that there's a workstream to clean the tools up and remove that aspect before issuing them.

  5. #5

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    i am curious about 3 questions:

    did msts's editor give people access to the source code?

    is there any OTHER train sim that has come close to sales as msts did?

    the reason i ask is that it seems to me that editors are what make HUGE sales in a train sim because it gives people more variety (routes, locomotives, rolling stock, etc.) and allows people to profit from their talents. i wonder how many people have copies of msts?

    sometimes i think about re-installing msts just because of the variety.....

    66

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneon66 View Post
    i am curious about 3 questions:

    did msts's editor give people access to the source code?

    is there any OTHER train sim that has come close to sales as msts did?

    the reason i ask is that it seems to me that editors are what make HUGE sales in a train sim because it gives people more variety (routes, locomotives, rolling stock, etc.) and allows people to profit from their talents. i wonder how many people have copies of msts?

    sometimes i think about re-installing msts just because of the variety.....

    66
    For the first question: a solid no. For the second one, a bit of a complicated comparison. For the large part, MSTS was one of the first commercial train simulators available. Because of this and the fact that MS had already established a solid simulator franchise and following in their Flight series, MSTS was able to sell very well based on those two points more than anything else. From what I remember, the tools were actually very daunting and non-user friendly which resulted in very few players attempting to use them until the simulator had largely matured.

    For MSTS to get to where it is today in terms of variety of content and (relative) ease of editing in-game assets, it took many years (almost decades, now) of community involvement and hard work.

    Railworks/Train Simulator 20xx/Train Sim World have really always marketed themselves toward the casual gamer interested in light transportation related simulation, not at all the same audience that Microsoft was targeting with MSTS since simulator players were much more of a niche market back then and given that, more likely to demand tools and things so that they can create their own activities, routes, etc. It is assumed that the casual gamers that TSW was made to attract would prefer to pay money to have someone else do the work of creating their desired content, over creating it themselves.

    I don't agree with it at all of course, I feel that we should at the very least be able to manipulate the textures, sounds and simple physics numbers.

  7. #7
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    With respect to Mattie, it seems strange that after months of silence on his own forum, he suddenly pops up in two separate threads - one to deny TSW is a "flop" (when most commentators regard it as precisely that) and again in the referenced thread about supply of editors. Again the community is probably going to remain skeptical on this point, until something concrete is revealed. Up until then, TSW is very much DTG's World Of Subways, a throwaway arcade train game fully controlled by the publisher and designed to pull in the kiddies with quick cash who want to brag about their achievement wall.

    And it won't be the first time RSC/DTG have failed to deliver on promises made by this particular spokesman - the withdrawal of Project Platform was always going to be addressed as were nameable station signs... We know where that went! And if the programmers couldn't devise a means of allowing users to name their own signs, what chance of producing an editor for their new sim? Oh and the same spokesman also came out with the comment that it wasn't worth writing up release notes or a user guide for changes to the TS20xx editor for the relatively small numbers who use it.

    And as previously stated, even if we do get an editor for TSW it needs to be useable by the average hobby user and able to support content import from the reasonably priced (or free) creation tools such as 3D Crafter or Blender and paint shop pro/Gimp.

    However all the above indicates DTG are quite comfortable not having a public editor for TSW. They retain full control of both the routes and any train/rolling stock assets they can produce - which is something even Kuju/EA wanted way back in 2007 with RS - all in house, everything - including discussion forums - regulated by themselves.
    Vern.

  8. #8
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    For me no editors, no interest.

    Its not on the pc anymore, so i can certainly live without the failure that is TSW.

    Mike.
    Yma O Hyd

  9. #9
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    TSW has no route editor for users? lol

  10. #10
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    Even an activity editor would be welcomed.
    3DTrains - Home of the Feather River and Sherman Hill routes for MSTS

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