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Thread: Happening NOW - Amtrak Cascades NEW Service Derailment

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    No speculation here Vern . I merely reported something stated on the BBC and other's have confirmed that this is a normal speed limit. I totally agree that until any official investigation is undertaken we'll not know the cause.
    Wasn't aimed at you Geoff, just a general sentiment. Fortunately the audience here is a bit more discerning and mature than some of the other places where such things get discussed.
    Vern.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    Wasn't aimed at you Geoff, just a general sentiment. Fortunately the audience here is a bit more discerning and mature than some of the other places where such things get discussed.
    One thing that is obvious from the pictures and a map of the location is that there is a reasonably tight curve after a long straight where the derailment has happened.

    I note there's a lot of comment on the fact that TPS sensors were not due to be fitted until next year. Does anyone know if these new Siemens loco's have a "Tachograph" or other actual performance recorder?

    It's notable that whilst the curve radius is nothing like the Croydon Tram disaster, or the line speeds anything like the appalling RENFE Talgo crash, in all these situations derailment followed entering a speed restricted curve after a normal speed straight section.

    There could of course have been a track fault or mechanical failure so my comment is merely observation. It's interesting that the loco does not seem very far away from the bridge? If really excessive speed was involved you might expect it to be further away and more extensively damaged? Most of the Talgo carriages seem to have maintained reasonable structural integrity, although of course we can't tell about the interiors. Not so many years ago some passenger coaches would have disintegrated at a derailment like this.
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  3. #13
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    Download from the event recorder on the rear engine says the train was doing 80 mph, the section of track in that area is 30 mph. I won't speculate on why that happened, too early.
    Jim

  4. #14

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    This was the inaugural run on a new bypass route, so there's no disputing the engineer had a lack of familiarity with the territory. I haven't seen if there was a pilot onboard along with the engineer.

  5. #15
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    I wonder if the engineer survived, the lead Talgo looked pretty bad? There were months of testing and engineers should have been qualified long before the opening, or at least I would think so. And why would they start up with an unqualified engineer even with a pilot? Too may unanswered question right now.
    Jim

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiball 3985 View Post
    I wonder if the engineer survived, the lead Talgo looked pretty bad? There were months of testing and engineers should have been qualified long before the opening, or at least I would think so. And why would they start up with an unqualified engineer even with a pilot? Too may unanswered question right now.
    The locomotive looked pretty much undamaged in the aerial footage I saw Jim. It was an Amtrak Siemens unit and looked to be uncoupled from any of the Talgo cars. What is odd given the rear car read-out is that the loco didn't seem to have travelled far. Given that the latest info suggests that it left the track at 80m.p.h. and then dropped down an embankment I can only assume that the talgo units offered a good deal of braking to that forward motion after it left the track?

    There is still the possibility that the correct speed was not achieved due to a braking issue, or even wheelslip during braking?
    I quite agree that it seems odd that route familiarity could have been an issue?

    I guess we'll only get the full picture after the NTSB report. All the talking heads at news conferences are only reporting what is known so far.
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  7. #17
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    Geoff, this is the picture of the lead unit that I saw. It may not be that bad but I wouldn't want to be in it..
    ap-17352722886761.jpg
    Jim

  8. #18
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    Larger image with less foreground clutter. I think most of what you see there is tree/stump damage with maybe some minor concrete railing hits. Maybe some furrow damage at 30 degrees that was later righted as it went down the embankment.



    These were supposed to have inward facing video cameras, so we should know what went on the cab. Like if the crew visibly plugged the train but the rear unit recorder didn't detect any speed decrease.

    It is interesting that Siemens products have been involved in the two recent excessive speed derailment accidents here. We now know how all the models hold up in accidents.

    This was the first revenue run, but hardly the first trip for the hogger over this corridor. They ran many non-revenue test runs.

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    From what I saw yesterday from aerial footage the roof of the SC-44 was ripped open looked like from back to front so the 1st car must have gone over the top of the loco as it was heading down the embankment. But, lets leave this for the investigators to figure out.
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  10. #20
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    Definitely odd that the rear loco stayed on the tracks and didn't travel too far. That train is only about 500 feet long or so, right? There's no way a P42 could slow from 80 mph to a stop in that distance, even in emergency. Thoughts?

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