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Thread: Will there be a route editor in Train Sim World?

  1. #11
    sumitsingh Guest

  2. #12
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    Despite my lack of sympathy or love for DTG I think we have to tread carefully when it comes to telling people how to reverse engineer the software to get at the content. Sure that's against the game EULA and CoC here, for which a very prominent (former) member (JKY) has previously been pariahed for suggesting/trying to implement something similar for MSTS...

    That Steam thread does tend to sum things up nicely though, seems DTG don't actually understand their own code or how it interfaces with the proprietary game engine they bought into. If I was Peter Jackson, I would seriously be looking at how I could spin the dumping of UE4 and go back to an in-house game engine (Railworks 4???) which is more suited to a railway simulation and offering the sandbox tools much wanted by the community. Wouldn't be the first time a train sim developer did a 180 - Auran pushed Trainz Classics (very similar concept to TSW but with 2003 era graphics) then realised people didn't want to buy a succession of single route releases, so came up with TS2010 instead.
    Vern.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    Despite my lack of sympathy or love for DTG I think we have to tread carefully when it comes to telling people how to reverse engineer the software to get at the content. Sure that's against the game EULA and CoC here, for which a very prominent (former) member (JKY) has previously been pariahed for suggesting/trying to implement something similar for MSTS...

    That Steam thread does tend to sum things up nicely though, seems DTG don't actually understand their own code or how it interfaces with the proprietary game engine they bought into. If I was Peter Jackson, I would seriously be looking at how I could spin the dumping of UE4 and go back to an in-house game engine (Railworks 4???) which is more suited to a railway simulation and offering the sandbox tools much wanted by the community. Wouldn't be the first time a train sim developer did a 180 - Auran pushed Trainz Classics (very similar concept to TSW but with 2003 era graphics) then realised people didn't want to buy a succession of single route releases, so came up with TS2010 instead.
    Well, i m curious makes you think they don't understand their code?
    And why do you think they should ditch unreal and stuck to their own engine?(or kuju engine?)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by timl132 View Post
    Well, i m curious makes you think they don't understand their code?
    And why do you think they should ditch unreal and stuck to their own engine?(or kuju engine?)
    Well for starters when they admit on Steam about the butterfly effect, implies at best a certain lack of confidence in their ability.

    As regards the rest, well just look back through the catalogue of threads on here about shortcomings with TSW vs. TS20xx, then there's the whole issue of whether UE4 can even support an open sandbox editor as we have become accustomed to in other sims. By this stage it seems apparent either they can't do it, or don't want to.
    Vern.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    Well for starters when they admit on Steam about the butterfly effect, implies at best a certain lack of confidence in their ability.

    As regards the rest, well just look back through the catalogue of threads on here about shortcomings with TSW vs. TS20xx, then there's the whole issue of whether UE4 can even support an open sandbox editor as we have become accustomed to in other sims. By this stage it seems apparent either they can't do it, or don't want to.
    Ah i see, well the fact that they mention the utterfly effect as a reason to not solve bugs does sound quite weird though.
    But unreal can easely handle a good train sim.
    As some may know, i m working on one and it is going fine.
    We already have a route editor and it can handle open terrains fine, and we programmed it so it can in theory be unlimited big.(you do need enough hdd space).
    So it can be done in unreal, they are just struggling to do so.
    Now i have never used their engine, but i dont think it is that hard to build a level editor.

  6. #16
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    Ah i see, well the fact that they mention the butterfly effect as a reason to not solve bugs does sound quite weird though.
    Speaking as a retired I.T. professional the use of the phrase "butterfly effect" to describe a support team's view of the code it maintains is not simply "quite weird", it is the sound and sight of every alarm you can imagine going off at the same time. The only conclusion to draw is STAY AWAY... you know, like a Chernobyl-caliber STAY AWAY.

    It could be the design, it could be the caliber of the team doing the maintenance (it's often some combination of both) and/or the lack of real test tools. Whatever the cause it signifies a terminal condition for that app, which in turn can explain a whole lot of why RS?RW is what it is.

    Perhaps that explains the turn DTG has taken to the Unreal engine.

    My only experience with the Unreal engine is enjoying it in a game called Naval Action. GREAT eye candy. But here is the rub for everyone and DTG: Did the butterflies hatch in the RW game engine (mostly graphics) or in their implementation of content and how it was managed within the game loop?

    If the former then the move to the Unreal Engine could be a big improvement in what they can manage and improve... if the later, what reasoning should lead anyone to expect what they didn't understand before is now understood and properly implemented? Or are those butterflies only there on account of the ignorance of the support team? Not knowing any them it is not at all fair to suggest any odds on poor skills of the staff and thinking about what has long been an issue in RW -- physics and train operations -- were I to place money down on a bet (I'm not) it would be against the Unreal engine fixing their problems.

    Interesting times.
    Last edited by muskokaandtahoe; 01-10-2018 at 10:44 PM.
    Dave Nelson

    Seldom visiting, posting less often that that.

  7. #17
    sumitsingh Guest

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    Trainz are also coming this year with a new game.
    Last edited by sumitsingh; 01-11-2018 at 08:40 AM.

  8. #18

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    Auran/N3V have completely lost my faith over the last couple of years.

    Interesting parallel though, they were in the same position as DTG is now when T:ANE was released: a complete failure to deliver their (Kickstarter) promises, and they have never been able to catch up. AFAIK, they ran out of money and credit with the investors and had to fire lots of staff, staff needed to pull the franchise out of the mud it has sunk into. Graphics and physics are still a joke in T:ANE, no promises whatsoever were ever delivered since.

    IMO T:ANE is not really better than Trainz12, and has attracted no commercial 3rd parties of any significance over those who were already on board in Trainz' times. Plus, their commercial 3rd party DLC is so patchy, we have a few isolated locomotives w/o native routes or matching consists. I only have bought some Jointed Rail US locomotives to run over Mojave, and that's about all my investment in T:ANE.

    T:ANE's path could be very well awaiting TSW too if DTG cannot pull themselves together.
    Edwin "Kanawha"

    The Chessie, the train that never was ... (6000 hp Baldwin-Westinghouse steam turbine electric)

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    Well for starters when they admit on Steam about the butterfly effect, implies at best a certain lack of confidence in their ability.

    As regards the rest, well just look back through the catalogue of threads on here about shortcomings with TSW vs. TS20xx, then there's the whole issue of whether UE4 can even support an open sandbox editor as we have become accustomed to in other sims. By this stage it seems apparent either they can't do it, or don't want to.
    To give an idea of the problem of using the UE4 editor as a basis for a sandbox>

    With the UE4 editor you can take anyones mesh asset from the game and export it out as a 3d model,
    Not something you would want to happen with a commercial project.

    Oh and happy new year :-)

    Sly

  10. #20
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    I was unaware someone here was developing a train simulator. I don't read the general forums here, so I guess I missed out on that one. I'd be very curious to be pointed in a direction for more info on this if available. Either in reply or private should do just fine.

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