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Thread: Annotated ORTS Diesel Engine Block

  1. #1
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    Default Annotated ORTS Diesel Engine Block

    Here's an annotated ORTS Diesel Engine Block

    My guiding principle is to use OR default UoM, which do not need to be specified in the file.
    Other UoM have to be specified in the file, this adds more complexity to the file, more work to prepare and another layer of information that can cause errors.

    Regarding the ORTS Diesel Engines Block: please read ORTS Manual Section 8.2 page 82 for complete explanation and default UoMs


    Comment ( Standard ORTS Diesel Engine for GE ES44AC,C45ACCTE, GEVO )
    Comment ( include ( "..\\..\\Common.Std\\Locomotives\\Std_Eng_ES44AC.i nc" ) ) Note on path string --- name for the ORTS common folder have been proposed. Common.Fleet, Common.Std
    OR_Required, (payware venders may eventually use a name suited to their specific brand), I'm in agreement with Dave Nelson that the community should seriously think about adopting a name.

    ORTSDieselEngines ( 1
    Diesel(
    IdleRPM ( 450 ) <<<< Idle & Max Rpm from files, online sources, operation manuals, cross-checked among sources for accuracy per eng type
    MaxRPM ( 1050 )
    StartingRPM ( 355 ) <<< as explained to me*, verified through research, usual diesel operation this is approx 100rpm below idle
    StartingConfirmRPM ( 485 ) <<< as explained to me*, verified through research, usual diesel operation this is approx 50rpm above idle
    ChangeUpRPMpS ( 75 ) <<<< I match this number to the throttle advance found in the RPM Tab
    ChangeDownRPMpS ( 25 ) <<<< not sure about this, all sources I've found have this number less than ChangeUP
    RateOfChangeUpRPMpSS ( 10 ) <<<< two rate of change lines I usually keep to what is shown here. Still exploring these.
    RateOfChangeDownRPMpSS ( 5 )
    MaximalPower ( 3281.079kW ) <<<specify kW as shown in manual NOTE-no space between last number and kw** (UoM)
    IdleExhaust ( 0.5 ) <<<< The three required exhaust lines are all adjusted for user preference
    MaxExhaust ( 1 ) <<<< The three required exhaust lines are all adjusted for user preference
    ExhaustDynamics ( 0.5 ) <<<< The three required exhaust lines are all adjusted for user preference
    ExhaustDynamicsDown ( 0.5 ) <<< optional as specified in manual, all other exhaust lines must be included in file
    ExhaustColor ( 206B787D ) <<< Normal HEX code...only accepts letters A,B,C,D,E,F - numerals 0 thru 9
    ExhaustTransientColor ( 40212324 ) <<< Normal HEX code...only accepts letters A,B,C,D,E,F - numerals 0 thru 9
    DieselPowerTab ( <<<<<<<<<<<<< default is Watts for Diesel Power Tab
    0 0
    450 0
    525 410135
    600 820270
    675 1230405
    750 1640540 <<<< power notated here is matched to the 50% tab in the throttle RPM tab (1/2 total power in Watts)
    825 2050674
    900 2460809
    975 2870944
    1050 3281079
    )
    DieselConsumptionTab ( << consumption tab requires min and max, code does the calc. Exception to rule of default UoM***)
    0 0
    450 3.4gal
    1050 198.4gal
    )
    ThrottleRPMTab ( <<<<< Throttle RPM advance is balanced = each throttle advance is 75rpm increase, throttle advance is adjusted/balanced manually for each eng file.
    0 450
    12.5 525
    25 600
    37.5 675
    50 750
    62.5 825
    75 900
    87.5 975
    100 1050
    )
    DieselTorqueTab ( <<<<<<<<<< Diesel Torque Tab default is Newtons
    0 0
    450 80624
    1050 738405
    )
    MinOilPressure ( 20 ) <<<< normal operating range from most sources -- 20 to 30, older diesel engines would go as low as 10-15 AFAIK Only used in loco HUD display
    MaxOilPressure ( 90 ) <<<< 90 for modern diesels, older (pre-1970? or 1960's 50 would be correct AFAIK Only used in loco HUD display
    MaxTemperature ( 120 ) <<<< last five lines I leave as is, AFAIK OR only uses these lines for HUD display purposes, no code uses them.
    Cooling ( 3 )
    TempTimeConstant ( 720 )
    OptTemperature ( 71 )
    IdleTemperature ( 55 )
    )
    )

    *Thank you Tyler. **Thank you Derek Morton ***Thank you Erick
    OR will accept many differents Units of Measure...for a complete table see manual Chap22, Appendices, page219.
    If you choose to use other UoM than the defaults, please note, there is no space between the last number and the UoM.
    (see annotation of Diesel Comsumption Tab )
    Last edited by R. Steele; 01-18-2018 at 12:10 PM. Reason: credits and clairfication
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  2. #2
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    Did anyone ever figure out what units the fuel consumption tab actually uses? If you go by the docs, which say it should be expressed in g/kWh, you'll be very unpleasantly surprised if you try to plug in real numbers (as an example, the BSFC of the GEVO-12 is 0.001644 g/kWh, your tab uses a value of 198.4 units, and I'm guessing your total consumption comes out close). I ended up deriving a coefficient based on plugging in a value of 100 and seeing what result I got using the HUD. Because we can look up how much diesel fuel weighs, and we can use convert-me to easily convert units, I eliminated kg/hr as a possibility as well (it was the only other possibility I could think of, total consumption listed as some unit other than gal/hr, since BSFC varies but is usually pretty comparable across a range of power settings in real diesel engines).

    My coefficient, by the way, is 3.79 (assuming fuel flow is in gallons per hour).
    Last edited by Erick_Cantu; 01-11-2018 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick_Cantu View Post
    Did anyone ever figure out what units the fuel consumption tab actually uses? If you go by the docs, which say it should be expressed in g/kWh, you'll be very unpleasantly surprised if you try to plug in real numbers (as an example, the BSFC of the GEVO-12 is 0.001644 g/kWh, your tab uses a value of 198.4 units, and I'm guessing your total consumption comes out close). I ended up deriving a coefficient based on plugging in a value of 100 and seeing what result I got using the HUD. Because we can look up how much diesel fuel weighs, and we can use convert-me to easily convert units, I eliminated kg/hr as a possibility as well (it was the only other possibility I could think of, total consumption listed as some unit other than gal/hr, since BSFC varies but is usually pretty comparable across a range of power settings in real diesel engines).

    My coefficient, by the way, is 3.79 (assuming fuel flow is in gallons per hour).
    Darn good question Erick...don't know.
    The reason I have ignored it...AFAIK this entry is only used for the locomotive HUD...unless the code actually uses it in an activity where you could run out of fuel and have to stop and refuel?? (does that really happen in real world...I suspect not so much, if at all)

    Thanks for posting the coefficient you are using...will check it out, learning all the time.
    Brilliant 3D cabs by the way...very fine work. (referring to thread over at ET)
    I get ( from a converter) that 1 gal US diesel = 40.7 kwh --- does that make sense or align with what you know?
    Last edited by R. Steele; 01-11-2018 at 09:53 PM.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  4. #4
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    MaximalPower ( 3281.079kW ) <<<specify kW as shown in example in manual

    Need to careful here,
    The manual can show THP or TKW, Traction HP or Traction KW, whereas OR needs Gross HP or KW as OR deducts Power for accessories.
    Cheers
    Derek

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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    MaximalPower ( 3281.079kW ) <<<specify kW as shown in example in manual

    Need to careful here,
    The manual can show THP or TKW, Traction HP or Traction KW, whereas OR needs Gross HP or KW as OR deducts Power for accessories.
    Derek regarding "The manual can show THP or TKW, Traction HP or Traction KW" I don't know what you are referring to.
    A search in the current OR manual of either term brings up no results. Where are you getting your information??

    Here's what I've been doing:
    Using Convert - change HP to kW (gross - as determined by whatever web sources I can find, ops manuals, DieselShop, Wiki, and the file itself)
    The gross kW entered in the ORTS block as Maximal Power
    The figure entered as maximal power in watts entered in the power tab
    Question: all correct so far?

    When you have the time...explanation of THP or TKW vs Gross or Maximal Power, please. PM or email okay. Thank you.
    Last edited by R. Steele; 01-11-2018 at 09:58 PM.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  6. #6
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    Traction horsepower = hp going to the wheels.
    Gross hp = hp at the flywheel.

    OR needs HP at the flywheel.
    Cheers
    Derek

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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    Traction horsepower = hp going to the wheels.
    Gross hp = hp at the flywheel.
    OR needs HP at the flywheel.
    Yes, I understand your explanation which is the general description of power loss that occurs when using a combustion motor to drive an electrical generator (either a DC generator or an AC alternator/rectifier).
    There will always be more power at the "flywheel' (collectively the diesel motor) than at the driving wheel. Not being an electrical engineer my knowledge stops at the rudimentary level. Although being a former electronics tech (early days 1968 to mid 70's) I know about alternating currents, fields, early transistor theory...

    The manual explicitly states "power in watts" for the diesel power tab - page 82 and Watts as the default UoM for power - page 220.
    (HP is accepted, OR accepts many UoM)
    I still cannot find your manual references. ...and how does all this apply to the ORTSDieselEngine block?
    Why the need to be careful??? (referring the cryptic remark in post #4)
    Last edited by R. Steele; 01-12-2018 at 03:41 AM.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  8. #8
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    It could be a flaw in an older version of the manual that has been subsequently rectified.

  9. #9
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    >The manual explicitly states "power in watts" for the diesel power tab

    HP or watts I don't care, neither does ORTS.

    You are missing the point here,
    OR needs the flywheel kw as it reduces the power due to accessories.

    You can check this with the aid of the HUD.
    Cheers
    Derek

  10. #10
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    That sounded a bit snappy. I need to tone it down a bit.

    In my testing I have used kw and hp and it doesn't seem to matter.
    I have just added a kw column to my spreadsheet next to the hp column so I can use either figure.
    The HUD has kw on it so I will have to use kw.

    The point I was trying to make was the flywheel hp, I use that term loosely, could be kw, I should have said power, while you were trying to make your point about the manual stating watts.
    Cheers
    Derek

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