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Thread: Extending existing route - elevation issues

  1. #1
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    Question Extending existing route - elevation issues

    Friends,

    The last version of Don Karch's extensive DSP&P/CM/DRG route is in the library and as many
    know, Don passed away in late December and was buried a few weeks ago in a military cemetery
    in Denver.

    He had put the route together, including material I put together for him on the Black Canyon, and he
    has the D&RG east to Parlin, CO. Now I am looking at extending the D&RG east from Parlin over
    Marshal Pass to Salida, and including a little of the line over Poncha Pass that went to Alamosa. And
    I have included all the line to the Monarch quarry. No sweat digitizing it from Google Earth, and offsetting
    the markers south .001 degrees to closely match the existing track line. But when I process the data
    from DEM I get blocks of data with a maximum range of 0 to 3000 feet approximately and the new
    tiles show as processed, but elevation is not visible. It appears that the scale of the data is about 3.
    The base terrain is at about 800 meters, and the terrain tops out at about 3300 meters.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on what you would need to do to match the previous terrain?

    J. H. Sullivan
    (landnrailroader)

  2. #2
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    Default

    I don't know if this will help, but the thread is about resetting the height of a route

    https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...01#post1497501
    Chris
    "True rail fans have two favorite railroads. The B&O and one other."

  3. #3
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    Default

    I know for a fact that Don reduced the height of his routes to avoid problem of terrain disappearing at extremely high
    altitudes. I was having terrain problems when I was building the Leadville and Monarch Branch Lines of the Tennessee Pass
    Route. These branch lines were well over 10000 ft in elevation.
    At Dons suggestion, I reduced the elevation of the route and eliminated the high altitude terrain problems.
    You can reduce the terrain height using a tsutils function in RouteRiter.
    I believe he made the reduction in even thousand foot increments, and mentioned he sometimes went below sea level.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I saw right off that he had reduced the elevation. The problem is that I am wanting to add a couple hundred
    new tiles to the route, and these have to match the elevations of the existing route. The TSUTILS function is
    fine for an entire route, but how would you add new tiles to match. The maximum height I found in the
    existing route is about 2000 meters (at Alpine Tunnel), so one method I tried was to u se VTbuilder to scale
    the elevation so that the maximum height in the new tiles was close. I was able to match the elevation fine
    at the boundary to the new tiles, but scaling elevation should also tend to soften the changes in elevation,
    and probably would also require scaling the elevation changes in the track. This is not a high priority item
    with me, and I was just taking a break from the MCOA2 for a day or so.

    So, to sum up the issue: 1. how could you determine the elevation drop that Don used - it appears to be
    about 4000 feet? and 2. How could you apply this information to a new group of tiles and not an entire
    route?

    J. H. Sullivan
    (landnrailroader)

  5. #5
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    Jerry,

    Could you put the new tiles to be lowered in another route (made just for this purpose), lower them, and then copy them into the route to be extended? I've never tried it, so no guarantees

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by landnrailroader View Post
    So, to sum up the issue: 1. how could you determine the elevation drop that Don used - it appears to be about 4000 feet? and 2. How could you apply this information to a new group of tiles and not an entire
    route?
    A note from Don: "Cripple Creek Railroads Route, Rollins Pass/Moffat Tunnel Route, C&S NG South Park Line, and the Colorado Joint Line have an elevation offset of -1525 meters. That puts Denver just above sea level, but puts Pueblo below sea level."

    regards,
    charlie

  7. #7
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    Default Additional files

    Quote Originally Posted by ebnertra000 View Post
    Jerry,

    Could you put the new tiles to be lowered in another route (made just for this purpose), lower them, and then copy them into the route to be extended? I've never tried it, so no guarantees
    I see that Don lowered the route 1525 meters. I have wondered about doing this. As long as all editing was
    going to be done in TSRE, and all operation was going to be done in ORTS, it might work. But otherwise how
    would you get those new files added to the Quadtree of the existing route.

    Hint: Demex might do it, but I have never had success in saving the Quadtree in Demex - it is always corrupt.
    Another possibility might be to use the merge function in RRiter, especially since the new tiles will be empty
    until editing is started in either RE or TSRE. If you used Geometry Extractor I don't think the new tiles would
    show and any attempt to generate them would negate the work in the separate route.

    J. H. Sullivan
    (landnrailroader)

  8. #8
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    I'm going to try this, probably tonight. I would think that as long as the names don't conflict, you might be able to simply drop them into the route. To best avoid a conflict, it may be necessary to generate them in the original route, and then move them to an outside route to do all the modding. It would likely be a bit tedious finding the name of each tile's .t and .raw files. Not sure if TSRE or Demex does that

  9. #9
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    Ebert,

    I would be curious as to how that comes out. I can send you a digitized marker file for the new
    area if you like. email me off list at [email protected]. I used Google Earth.

    Don did not provide a marker file and I have done one and offset it to align closely with his
    track, just east of Parlin. I used a south shift of .001 degrees. As the new markers start at
    a curve, I was just going to smooth the existing track into the digitized curve.

  10. #10
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    Jerry,

    I intend to try this with a route that I have on my system already, more as a proof of concept than anything else. I don't think I'll need the markers, as they'll be hundreds of miles to the west of my route. I figure if I can get it to work for me, then it could apply to for you, as well. Thanks for the offer, though

    Travis

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