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Thread: Run8 Still No Competition after 6 years

  1. #1
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    Default Run8 Still No Competition after 6 years

    So as I've been saying on YouTube despite my concerns there is no competition for Run8. Run8 has been the best train simulator on the planet in my opinion almost since it's first year. When you do enough searching on various forums you get interesting FB posts from the developers or team as they continue to hold everything close to their chest.

    So over the years I've been praising Run8, and been critical holding nothing back. That lack of holding back has got me into trouble on th e bad list. You won't find advertising for RTS on anything by Run8. Yet despite where I am critical, people still see the over 500 videos over 6 years and say they are getting Run8 because of what I've shown in my videos. In fact in the past 24 hours 3 people have said that in YouTube comments on my channel. I have about 350 subscribers so I'm certainly not the biggest out there. I don't do fancy editing or add music which is not being critical, it's just I don't want to put the effort or time in producing videos. I simply share my experiences live stream and with those streams come my unfiltered opinion about the product.

    That opinion is despite it's imperfection, is still the best train simulator on the planet, and there is no real competition. They all had their chances, Crossties, TSW, and they all failed to even try and do what Run8 does. So I call it as I see it, and since I obviously still use it and live stream it. People new to Run8 buy the product as well. I don't think my opinions ever scared anyone away. Nobody else does it any better.

    Thanks

    Sean

  2. #2
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    Not sure if you're promoting Run 8 or your Youtube videos with this post Sean? ....but lets nitpick your main (IMO) comments....
    Run8 has been the best train simulator on the planet in my opinion almost since it's first year.
    There's no doubt that Run 8 has developed a large following and (from what I read in the forums) has listened to user feedback in development.

    BUT It has severe limitations to date.

    It covers a really narrow aspect of rail operations both historically AND geographically. There is no international content and (please do correct me if I'm wrong) no user freeware content.

    Are there any user editing tools? ...and if so what aspects of the Sim can you alter/edit/create?

    I have nothing against Run8. I bought quite a few 3DTS add-ons, especially the UK content.

    Nobody else does it any better.
    Well in respect of development of trainsims in recent history I can't quarrel with that . If they had done I probably would have moved on from MSTS/OR!

    However both these older Sims have more ability for ordinary RailSim Hobbyists to "join in" with creating many aspects of the Sim. That, IMO, is beyond debate. The sheer number of international web sites supporting the older Sims after all this time proves the point.

    I'm reminded (a little) of the flight sim community. There are folk who are so desperate to have total realism they will only fly airliners that cost hundreds of $'s and which have to be operated by the exact procedure required in the real thing. It can take 30-60 mins just to get the aircraft started and taxied to the runway for takeoff ....meanwhile those of us who like flying can jump into an equally accurate light aircraft and spend an hour actually flying the thing!!!

    It's a matter of personal choice?
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  3. #3

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    If I were to compare Run8 with Trainsimulater 20xx, I'd have to say that they are at two opposite ends of the spectrum. Run8 is heavy on the realism, but poor on eye candy. Trainsim is great on the eye candy but poor on realism. For instance, in Trainsim, you can recognize specific buildings, cities, etc. However, the brakes don't work correctly, locomotives don't load up properly, and things just don't handle as they do in real life. Run8's scenery (though getting much better, including shadows) does not attempt to follow real life. However, the track placement is a close as they can get it, and when you start running a locomotive and train, things handle like you expect them to do in real life. Anybody on Run8 who is a railroad and actually spent time running will say the same thing. The other simulators fall into the same spectrum with a variety of differences.

    I think Geoff hit it on the head with the flight sim comparisons. Do you want a game, or do you want to simulate the real thing. I want something close to reality, so I go with Run8. That doesn't mean an individual who uses a different sim is better or worse than me, he/she are just looking at getting something different out of the experience than I am.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by byelen View Post
    I think Geoff hit it on the head with the flight sim comparisons. Do you want a game, or do you want to simulate the real thing. I want something close to reality, so I go with Run8. That doesn't mean an individual who uses a different sim is better or worse than me, he/she are just looking at getting something different out of the experience than I am.
    NOT QUITE what I meant.... What I was drawing attention to was that the "Wannabe Airline Captains" were obsessed with a very narrow aspect of flying. I used to fly for real and I can assure you that many of the light aircraft modeled for FSX do respond very accurately with the real thing I've flown. The difference is that light aircraft are usually actually "flown" (no autopilot) and at altitudes where scenery is way more interesting than at 33-36000 ft.

    The "Realism" that Run8 provides is only for US roads/loco's/traffic types etc. It doesn't cover the sort of passenger trains that most of the rest of the world uses every day. Unfortunately some of this parochial attitude to what represents "REAL" physics has spilled pver into thinking with OR physics as well

    Nth American rail traffic is the result of the vast distances trains travel and the necessity to create hugh consists to maintain maximum economic viability. These massive consists are not part of the European rail scene. Most European countries have more passenger traffic than freight. It's simply a matter of geography. Shorter distances, massive motorway networks, massive road transport industry.

    Europe has had a far wider variety of traction than the US too.

    Basically Sean might want to edit his OP to read "...best train simulator for modern day North America"
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  5. #5
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    Default Run8 Still No Competition after 6 years

    Hi Geoff,

    Yeah - LOL - I was just going to ask - how are Run8’s steam locomotive physics ? Best is in the eye of the beholder...


    Regards,
    Scott


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by scottb613; 03-23-2018 at 06:46 PM.

  6. #6
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    This depends on how you read Sean`s post.

    He did not mention "realism" nor did he mention "eye-candy." His emphasis was "train simulator." If he generally meant "train operations" in the context of " weight-physics" and "air-brake systems" then I have to agree with him. Run8 has no competition in terms of what you can do in terms of simulating train operations and the physics that govern those operations on a switching level, dispatching and industry ops.

    If you were to push the "eye-candy" argument, some of us who can run at 4K with high end hardware would disagree "eye-candy" holds less weight in Run8 than those who were suckered in for TSW. I never touched the latter because I knew Run8 had no competition as it stands.

    Furthermore, MSTS was all we had at the time but it was always a broken mess further complicated by a hack-fest of third party add-ons (although some of the maple leaf tracks were good), which never solved the instability issues and would never qualify for "no competition" status. MSTS was a (32 bit) crash demon if I recall correctly.

    At least Run8 is 64 bit, functional and stable. I believe it crashed once in all my hundreds of hours of ops when I was multi-tasking on two monitors. The fact that Run8 prohibits third-party "open-ended" add-ons keep it stable and above and beyond anything that would assume to compete with what it claims to be: A Railroad Physics/Operation Simulator with no peer. Not to mention an AI (with development potential) beyond anything else as well.

    Just my experience and thoughts but not a comprehensive argument.

    Ezra
    Last edited by Ezra; 03-23-2018 at 07:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Sean, I'm happy you love your toys. Everyone should love their toys. I love OR, it satisfies my urge to play with trains, and fool around with physics and math. But to opine that your toys are better than the other kids toys, well...that's just silly.
    I really thought this forum had grown past that...guess not. Maybe it's just your exuberance taking the better of you.
    Enjoy RUN8 -- it really is a fine train sim. I would recommend it to anyone that was amenable to spending the cash on it.
    I did, and still use it, but have not updated since I purchased the CSX route. Perhaps, due to your exuberance, I will.
    Cheers, Gerry
    Last edited by R. Steele; 03-24-2018 at 01:35 AM.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    BUT It has severe limitations to date.

    It covers a really narrow aspect of rail operations both historically AND geographically. There is no international content and (please do correct me if I'm wrong) no user freeware content.

    Are there any user editing tools? ...and if so what aspects of the Sim can you alter/edit/create?
    And yet despite all these 'limitations' Run8 is the only sim these days that I can spend hours on at a time without getting bored out of my wits and I have had MSTS/OR, Railworks/TS20xx, TSW and Trainz virtually since each was released.

    Despite of, or perhaps because of, the lack of ability to write prescripted scenarios that you can play exactly the same over and over again Run8 has far more versatility and variety in running and dispatching trains than any of the others, which to me is what a railroad simulator is all about.

    As a Santa Fe/BNSF fan I admit a bit of bias but if Run8 was UK, German or something else it would still be my main sim if it does what it does.

  9. #9
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    I myself am one of those who gets continually suckered into the DTG franchise, and yet, I find peace in Run8. I don't care for the multiplayer portion of the simulator one bit, but I can choose whether I want to join a server or not. I also am still invested in ORTS/TSRE because my fictional railroad is easier to work on in that side of things. Sean, keep doing what you're doing, as no one can change your mind but you. Hope to see some of your shots and videos of the LA route when that is ever released.
    "Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
    calrouteprojectmstsorts.weebly.com/
    californiapacificrailroadorts.weebly.com/
    Cheers, S. J. Hjellum

  10. #10
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    OK lots of good comments here, and I'm shocked I have so many. Usually like a wolf crying in the forest haha. Ezra hit it most on the head as did Bruce. If I missed someone I am sorry.

    As far as my toy as one mentioned. I said Run8 is the best train simulator on the planet. I DID NOT say Run8 is the best graphic eye candy, or even the best RAILROAD SIMULATOR. The best railroad simulator still to this day actually falls to Freight Yard Manager in of course my humble opinion.

    The real point to all of this is a praise to Run8 yet a critique of their ongoing policies. I love Run8 no doubt about it, and when I recently was thinking about developing something the business side of me also worried someone might STEAL my ideas. There are TONS in fact 18 pages of ideas last I checked over at Run8depot from the community.

    What Run8 has done very few if anyone has tried to replicate. That was my point. No doubt about it I just did a stream last night in Fostoria Ohio where I streamed a FREE live stream on youtube with ATCS which apparently is against someone's rules. I quickly took the stream down after that but continue to hold the video on my YouTube page. Let YouTube decide if my video is against any copyright. But in that I said how much for years I wanted to see Fostoria.

    Even a commenter last night said how they enjoy the route building aspects. There is no Canadian or European routes, just constant expansion of California. I might be interested in LA because it's an end point, but I could care less about this constant expansion going east across a desert. To this day I haven't bought Seligman so I am no fan boy of Run8 I assure you.

    What I am is a fan of Run8 who is just expressing my opinion unfiltered. I certainly don't answer to the team (as evident of no longer being advertised there). Again no sour grapes, I don't care about advertising. My Youtube channel alone keeps bringing them in new customers all the time. I've lost count of how many people (3 in the last few days alone) told me they were going to buy run8 when I pointed them the right way. Of course saying and doing is two different things, I've been guilty of that one myself from time to time.

    Anyways nothing more than an opinion of a threat that doesn't exist. It would be nice to know more about what the future of Run8 is then hearing it from "PLUS" site forums and Facebook. Not all your customers actually care about Facebook or belong to a "PLUS" site.

    To be clear that site is doing just fine for the community, my issue isn't with them. I understand there have been issues this past year on their end, and I do with them all the best. But if they truly monitor forums (I do see Jason and Jim in here from time to time and they have a great route and support) it would be nice if they spoke to their entire community. But again I've had this complaint for years, and nothing much has changed. Except wannabe Run8's or whatever flavor of the month sim comes along to fail to any measure of expectations.

    Trainz and OR last I checked is great for building worlds. Would love to see that in Run8 some day, perhaps incentives to builders for a fee for support. In return they add in etc. I know more 3rd party developers are coming, but there are hundreds of talented people I'm sure would love to give it a try if you know what I mean?

    OK off my soap box. Have a good weekend. Thanks for all the replies.

    Sean

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