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Thread: Windows 10 try out

  1. #1

    Default Windows 10 try out

    I frequently see posts that say "I tried Win 10 and didn't like it." Well for those that have yet to try it, let me suggest that after you install it but before you go any further that you read and implement many of the suggestions in this article:
    How to Fix All of Windows 10’s Annoyances
    Charles

  2. #2
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    Thanks Charles. I have been performing this type of "clean-up" since WIN98, and while I don't have a PC with 10, I just received a free tablet from my work with 10, and hated it, but was muddling through the complete mess to get to things that really mattered.
    Neil

    Here at home, in the railroad mayhem capital of the world.

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    There is a utility, Spybot Anti-Beacon, that automates the disabling of most if not all of the spyware included with Windows 10, 7, 8 and 8.1.
    I keep a portable version on a thumbdrive and it's one of the first things I do when I do a new install of Windows.
    It's also a good idea to use it occasionally, especially after major OS updates. Microsoft likes to turn things on again without telling you.
    I like Windows 10, once I've wrested control back.

    Randy

  4. #4
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    Yes,Windows 10 is rubbish.Even 7 which is bad enough is better.i find it difficult to find all the previously easy to find things like Control panel,Windows Restore etc easy to find but now they are so difficult to find.I cannot run any of my games like Chessmaster,Mig Alley or my favourite Bridge software (could not even run the latter 2 on 7) and they cal this lump of crap progress.
    Why in this modern world do the young tech savvy gits have to keep changing things that worked perfectly well before?I reckon that when my 7 machine dies that will be the end of MSTS for me.
    i would like to hang them up by their privates.

  5. #5
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    I think the Metro interface starting with 8 was rubbish, and 10 is more rubbish on account of the loss of control over your updates. Faking metered bandwidth poverty just to avoid forced updates could not get any more hillbilly.

    I do not use any of the windows store apps, deleted them all, and reinstalled older generation apps instead. Most of those store apps are replacement apps engineered for data collection and, ultimately, additional revenue.

    I've installed Classic Shell on 8.1 build 9600 so everything still looks and behaves more like XP/Vista/7.

    I think 8.1 was close to 10, kernel-wise, but just without all the 10 lockdown and advertising and Cortana voice snooping shenanigans. Everything added to the 8.1 kernel to get to 10 is hardly any improvement in my book. 8.1 is as close to 10 as I will ever want to wander. 8.1 has been fairly bulletproof, tho.

    I do apply monthly updates manually, using the security-only stuff from the update catalog, and avoid any upgrade that adds features that only would attempt to 10-ize the machine even further.

  6. #6
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    That is OK for all you really tech savvy people.I do not have the skills or confidence to tweak Windows 10 as you do.At least i can access the internet (which is all this machine is useful for,it is certainly useless for playing the games I want to).Apart from that it is a waste of money.It is such a pity there is no competition to the monolithic,useless Microsoft.

  7. #7
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    Computer users have choices. They don't *have* to run Windows, though getting Open Rails to run under Linux/Wine is still a little touchy. They also don't *have* to run the latest Windows, though you do give up support for older versions after a while and for information safety have to disconnect from the internet if not all networks. If you really want to, you can run old, unsupported stuff as long as the hardware works, or even longer in a virtual machine (though MSTS afaik still won't work in any virtual machine).

    However, if you're going to use the internet, you need to be reasonably up to date. For Windows, that means 7 SP1, 8.1, or 10. Then there are secondary issues: for 7, basic security-only support ends in January 2020; for 8.1, it's a couple of years later. And for 10, it's 18 months after the last "feature update" (semi-annual new OS install) your computer got. Once you hit one of those "expiration dates" you have to either disconnect from networks like those who still use XP and Vista have done (or, as I do for certain stubborn bits of software, run things like Windows 98SE in a virtual machine). Moral: regardless of whether and how far you update in Windows, ALWAYS KEEP YOUR ORIGINAL DISKS (OR BURN YOUR DOWNLOADED INSTALL PACKAGE TO DISK) - there's a good change you will want it later.

    As for "Win10 is horrible can't run MSTS" well, that's true if you don't follow the instructions at this web site and Steam4Me about how to get around certain aspects of Modern Windows (really, anything since XP) that make it difficult to just install and go. After Windows 7, MSTS is even harder to deal with due to compatibility issues with some video cards and systems. It's not impossible; it's just not install-and-go (which really it never was, but the tweaks were much less critical back in Win98 and XP days). But once you've gotten some of the more intrusive bits of 10 under control, it's really not much worse overall (except visually, if the "modern" start menu creeps you out; I've learned to live with it) than Win 7 and much more secure under the hood. My main gripes about 10 are:

    1) MSTS and other old games - yes, they're officially "incompatible" (and most have been since Vista), but they work; but they take a sometimes inordinate amount of work to be even mostly right.
    2) 16-bit software and installers (some installers for MSTS content are 16-bit) - for most of us, they just don't work, but that's a 64-bit Windows thing (since XP), not Windows 10. There are workarounds, such as running the installer in DOSBox.
    3) My biggest gripe is the semi-annual "feature update" which is really, a full new OS installation. In the olde dayze, that happened every couple of years, not a couple every year. Every time they do one, something (if not everything) needs reinstallation. If there was ever an argument for doing frequent image backups of your boot disk, it's Windows 10 (because rollback often doesn't work right, or at all). Every time they do one, the controls get changed around a little so previous setup work (settings, Spybot Anti-Beacon, W10Privacy) has to be at least checked and sometimes totally redone. It's not so much cancelling previous settings (though that has happened in the past); lately it's more that new settings are added and old settings moved around, so previous control work has to be redone. Oh yes, and the default apps get reset by feature updates (and even for some monthly updates), so they have to be checked frequently and reset. Basically, Win10 is far more maintenance-intensive than previous versions. Other than that, for me, it works well; I just have to schedule a week or so of down time twice a year to deal with all the the settings recovery and reinstalls after the feature updates.

    Some people are so thin-skinned that they can't accept what Win10 puts them through. That's understandable if you're sensitive. I've been in IT so long that I understand (most of) what they're doing, and how to find out ways to control it. So it's annoying, but not the kiss of death.

    Are other o/s's better? Depends.

    Mac is more stable and (for some people) prettier than Windows 10, but the available hardware is limited and expensive. Unless you're into serious hacking (e.g. Hackintosh - it's a thing, search that term), you have to buy nearly everything from Apple. Unless Wine works in Mac OS, MSTS won't work; neither will Open Rails under any conditions (though the Monogame fork is making progress and might work on Mac someday).

    Linux? Also depends. Your experience will vary by "distro" and there are dozens of them. Fortunately, there are really only 1/2 dozen or so big-name ones, and most are not extremely difficult to set up. The old days of Linux being only for those who are intimate with the command line have faded considerably. Even in Mint (the one designed to be easy for Windows users to convert to), you will revert to or see the command line more often than in Windows. But it's perfectly possible to run ordinary web-surfing, email, and office-type stuff (using Libre or OpenOffice) in Linux and never see the Terminal. But if you want to run MSTS or other Windows-only software, you will need to get familiar with Wine and config files and some use of the Terminal - though once things are set up, for most software (except Open Rails, so far), it all works fine, almost as if things were running in Windows. You'll probably have to take responsibility to get your own software updates, though. And Windows software that won't work without internet access might be difficult to install and maintain.

    Anyway, at the moment, I'm stable on Windows 10. I won't say the experience is unalloyed joy, but it works OK if you pay attention.

  8. #8
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    Yes,OK to follow all those hacks if you are really tech savvy.i am not stupid but there is no way I would attempt what others have done.What happened to "If its not broke why fix it?" I cannot stand the Win 10 interface,XP or even 7 was so much easier.Unfortunately I have an AMD card on this machine (yes I know I should have specified nvidia or whatever works with MSTS but I guess I can change it if the 7 machine dies.I had to get this one because the old faithful XP machine which must be 15 years old (it was a refurb when I bought it !) could not access all the sites on the internet.....more progress.Not.The XP machine still works and is useful for file storage but is not easy to use because of its physical location in my home.So no Bridge or Chess and no one has seen fit to produce either of those for this heap of junk....yes I know it has MS Chess on it but that is crap in comparison to Chessmaster.

  9. #9
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    Definitely can be a hassle.

    I have my Win 7 PC for the train hobby, it has not been on the Internet since I configured it for trains, I use a laptop for the Internet and transfer files to the Win 7 PC via a flash drive. No worries on auto-updates, it just works.
    Rick

    http:\\mononrr.com

    MONON-2


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragtimer View Post
    Yes,OK to follow all those hacks if you are really tech savvy.i am not stupid but there is no way I would attempt what others have done.What happened to "If its not broke why fix it?" I cannot stand the Win 10 interface,XP or even 7 was so much easier.Unfortunately I have an AMD card on this machine (yes I know I should have specified nvidia or whatever works with MSTS but I guess I can change it if the 7 machine dies.I had to get this one because the old faithful XP machine which must be 15 years old (it was a refurb when I bought it !) could not access all the sites on the internet.....more progress.Not.The XP machine still works and is useful for file storage but is not easy to use because of its physical location in my home.So no Bridge or Chess and no one has seen fit to produce either of those for this heap of junk....yes I know it has MS Chess on it but that is crap in comparison to Chessmaster.
    As with cars and other technological things, the older it gets the more self-supporting you need to be.

    Case in point: Chessmaster. The old Chessmaster program in Windows 3.1 doesn't work in modern (64-bit) Windows because 64-bit (in Windows) is backward compatible only to 32-bit software. However, there is something called DOSBox which provides a 16-bit DOS environment using software, within which 16-bit Windows 3.1 can be installed and in which Chessmaster works perfectly. FWIW, Train Dispatcher 2.0 (the old free version) also works perfectly in Windows 3.1 under DOSBox. Yes, that's a technological tweak, but if you want to run old software on a modern system you need to learn about such things. EDIT: and if you have a computer with 2 GB of RAM, you can get Windows 10 in 32-bit form, which includes the old 16-bit compatibility layer so you can play the old programs without using DOSBox.

    The alternative is to keep old systems around, disconnected from the internet, for running things that are inconvenient or impossible to run directly on modern systems. Others above have discussed how they do that. That works, because older hardware is usually pretty reliable (except possibly for hard disks and the like) and there's still a lot of it around for cheap (so, to use the car analogy, you can have several junkers around to supply parts for keeping one running).

    There is, btw, a package of Win7 games (including all the standard stuff that came with Win7) available for free for Windows 8 & 10. Takes a little hunting (try googling variations on "Windows 7 system games on Windows 10") but it's out there, and from personal experience it works well. Granted, that includes MS Chess, not Chessmaster...

    If you refuse to accept Windows 10 because of the user interface, then you are cutting off your only Windows option for relatively safe internet use beyond the early 2020s. That's your choice. At that point, you may have to equip one computer with Linux or buy a Mac to keep surfing, while locking the others away for special uses. Again, your choice, but you will have to become at least somewhat tech-savvy to carry out such a solution.
    Last edited by mikeebb; 06-27-2018 at 09:47 PM.

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