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Thread: Coordinate discrepancies between ORTS and MSTS

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB.
    Posts
    266

    Default Coordinate discrepancies between ORTS and MSTS

    I work with a route author in fine tuning a route before release to the public. I run over the route looking for little things like floating trees, etc., and report back to him, usually with a photo showing the no-no and the compass on the top of frame. We have worked this way for years without any problems. This latest route of his, however, is so dense that I cannot run it while in MSTS and must run in ORTS. I used MSTS before because it is much easier to stop, shoot a photo and then commence my run without that annoying wait while the air builds up in the braking system. He then uses the coordinates to hone onto the area and correct same. Lately, he would note the coordinates that the ORTS would show and then would not be able to find my noted problem using the MSTS Activity. Eventually, we discovered the coordinates in ORTS do not correspond to the coordinates in the MSTS Activity editor. One case in point-- At the East end of a siding on the route we are working on now, the coordinates in ORTS for the points on that siding switch are-- lat 47.216400, long 121.171300, and in MSTS -- lat 47.22605, long 121.16087. . When my author friend tries to find the problem, he misses greatly. That is far too much discrepancy between the two. With the thousands of routes available since MSTS first showed up way back and without any one stating a compass problem, I would be inclined to believe that the ORTS compass is at fault. Has any one else found this to be true or they just don't notice? Could someone check into and correct this problem with the ORTS compass if,in fact, it is at fault?

    Moe Smith

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Carolina's
    Posts
    2,834

    Default

    Even more issues come up with TSRE as well. It's still very frustrating.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brockville, ON, CA
    Posts
    2,949

    Default

    Open Rail's latitude and longitude have always been off. I have no idea how much but when someone sent me a screenshot to check something it was a good mile off, the few times I've tried using it it's been anywhere from a few hundred feet off to a mile.

    It's a long known issue, almost from OR's start. that has never been fixed.

    Paul :-)

  4. #4

    Default

    Hi Paul,

    When you say "Open Rail's latitude and longitude have always been off." what exactly do the coordinates differ from?

    regards,
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brockville, ON, CA
    Posts
    2,949

    Default

    Hi Vince,

    Here's a little demonstration for you. I had a test train sitting in the Fonda NY yard. Took a screenshot while in MSTS and then another while in OR, the train didn't move and in both cases I trued to camera so it was looking east just because the latitude and longitude were partially covered in the MSTS shot by the cabview.

    MSTS co-ordinance were lat 42.95451 lon -74.36449



    IR co-ordinance were lat 42.845190 lon -74.379260



    If you put the Open Rails co-ordinance in MSTS Route Editor you end up about a mile away from the engine.



    This is pretty typical with OR and the bug was reported to the OR team on ET by someone about a week after the very first beta was out. Nothing has every been done by OR to correct it.

    Paul :-)

  6. #6

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    Hi Paul,Your saying that compared to MSTS that Open Rails is off.
    Now from building the NEC4 I noticed in MSTS there are missing miles between Philadelphia and Wilmington so MSTS is flawed also.

    I would love to how MSTS & Open Rails locations matches up with the real world as shown by lets say, Google Maps?
    Those missing miles, about 5 or 6 as I recall have always bothered me a bit.

    regards,
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brockville, ON, CA
    Posts
    2,949

    Default

    Hi Vince,

    Is that 5 or 6 miles missing compared to an Employee Timetable? The farther east you go the worse it gets. When I was doing the first version of the Dominion Atlantic I lost 15 miles between Windsor and Windsor Junction, about a 40 mile run, that's west to east. When I was drawing north to south it was next to nothing, maybe 0.2 miles over a 25 mile stretch.

    If you really want to see the problem in OR, hop in an engine, turn the compass on, and take a ride where there are signals. Take a screen shot every time the mile to the next signal change, then go into Route Editor and go to the latitude and longitude that show on the compass, you probably will be no where near the track.

    Paul :-)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,651

    Default

    There's a way to determine the extent of the discrepency in TSRE with the help of the ruler tool. The difference between game length and geo length (real-World distance) can vary widely by location and direction.

    In Duluth, MN, I got the following. All game lengths are 128m, values below are geo length:
    North/South: 133.1m
    East/West: 123.7m
    NW/SE: 124m
    NE/SW: 132.4m
    Worst discrepency: NNE/SSW (134.4m)

    This is by no means the worst I've seen. I started a fictional route using terrain northeast of Japan, and 160m game length showed up as 328m geo length. A lot of places could benefit from a revised World projection, or some other fix to this if it's possible

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lexington, Ky
    Posts
    2,684

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    LOLOL

    Do not forget, MSTS and OR are flat.

    The Earth is round....
    Rick

    http:\\mononrr.com

    MONON-2


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Hastings, MN, 55033
    Posts
    3,604

    Default

    And boy oh boy did FSX cause headaches for scenery developers when it went to a round world model.

    I mean, it's worth it, but there was some definite technique adjustment.

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