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Thread: Win 10 1809 update - lost files

  1. #1
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    Default Win 10 1809 update - lost files

    https://www.extremetech.com/computin...m_medium=title

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/6/1...-update-paused


    Probably related to this feature 'misfiring'

    https://www.extremetech.com/computin...-free-up-space

    You may have the biggest system hard drive in your desktop, but you get treated like the smallest laptop with a hard drive so crammed full of junk that it can no longer accommodate MS O/S bloat

  2. #2
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    MS "paused" the rollout process for 1809 due to the file loss issue. See: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4464619

    The trade press reported yesterday that they've resumed rolling it out to Insiders after some fixes related to how it handles redirected "known" folders like Documents, Pictures, etc. Rollout to general users will resume some time later. If you have lost files, MS wants you to contact them for assistance; they might have ways to recover them.

    Comment: this isn't the first time with recent updates and upgrades (the semi-annual feature update, like 1809, is really an upgrade that replaces the operating system completely) that there have been problems. It seems that MS may be relying too much on unstructured testing (Insiders) rather than structured (internal testers), which results in failures when exposed to the real beta testers (real-world users). Not good. I've switched to Linux for general use on my olde laptop, which (Mint) seems to work well, but so far have not been able to get Wine working reliably; therefore no ORTS yet.

  3. #3
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    Update: 1809 was re-released, supposedly with the bad problems fixed, on November 13, 2018. MS is supposed to be be doing a more measured rollout this time, with updates of specific machines depending on hardware specs and software that MS knows about. Gluttons for punishment can get it now by manually checking for updates or by downloading to media for performing a clean upgrade. MS recommends that the rest of us wait until it's offered. In my experience, that's a good idea.

    FWIW, my 1803-based machines started getting the normal 2nd Tuesday cumulative update today (Nov 14), not 1809.

  4. #4
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    Arrow Win-10 upgrade issues

    I keep reading this stuff about files being lost, and some programs being uninstalled etc. I am pretty active in route building
    although I get no real thrill out of operating a train vicariously (I have personal experience from many years ago with both
    diesel, and steam although I was not a locomotive engineer, and currently I am also a docent on the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic
    going out to the promised (steam) land from Florida). Apparently this 1809 version was a terror.

    Now my supplier would like to upgrade me to Win-10, from Win-7, and I have used the basic supplied programs on other
    computers and have no problem, so my question is this?

    Is it still necessary to reinstall MSTS or some of the supporting programs, every time there is a system upgrade, given that
    apparently these are not incremental upgrades, but full replacements of the O/S. Has anyone figured a way to avoid this
    issue if it is still around.

    J. H. Sullivan
    (aka landnrailroader)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by landnrailroader View Post
    I keep reading this stuff about files being lost, and some programs being uninstalled etc. I am pretty active in route building
    although I get no real thrill out of operating a train vicariously (I have personal experience from many years ago with both
    diesel, and steam although I was not a locomotive engineer, and currently I am also a docent on the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic
    going out to the promised (steam) land from Florida). Apparently this 1809 version was a terror.

    Now my supplier would like to upgrade me to Win-10, from Win-7, and I have used the basic supplied programs on other
    computers and have no problem, so my question is this?

    Is it still necessary to reinstall MSTS or some of the supporting programs, every time there is a system upgrade, given that
    apparently these are not incremental upgrades, but full replacements of the O/S. Has anyone figured a way to avoid this
    issue if it is still around.

    J. H. Sullivan
    (aka landnrailroader)
    You're correct about the "feature updates" - they're complete o/s replacements. Essentially similar to "service packs" in previous versions of WIndows. So they uninstall most 3rd-party software (MS apps and software are, of course, automatically reinstalled). It's possible to do one without losing your actual data - in fact, that's the way they're supposed to work. But installed software is subject to loss though I've had occasions where random titles stay around. Even if something like MSTS is installed outside of Program Files (and therefore the files are not actually removed), the registry information is nuked so it may not work as expected afterward (need to reinstall for the registry, or find a way to replace the registry entries otherwise). Windows does leave a html file on the desktop afterward listing what was removed, and for some the links to where it can be re-downloaded, but it's usually incomplete.

    So the short answer is: yes, it is still necessary to reinstall MSTS, Open Rails, etc. after a feature update (aka service pack, upgrade, etc.). At minimum, that's necessary to reestablish the registry entries for the software. If the software is installed in the Program Files directories, it's a complete reinstall. I usually keep a zip file of installers for all of my current software someplace handy to assist with the rebuild process, though I also often treat it as an opportunity to download the latest versions of most things.

    Speaking of download: the way Win10 does things also means that twice a year you're going to have a month with 2-4 GB of Windows update download, plus whatever is needed to reinstall stuff. That can be an issue for those with slow internet connections or low data caps. One way around that would be for your supplier to use the Enterprise edition of Windows, and distribute upgrades offline via disk images rather than letting MS do it. That's a pain as a regular process, and there are still the monthly (sometimes twice a month, plus antivirus updates) regular updates to handle.

    As for the data loss issue with 1809, that was apparently an anomaly. Usually, the upgrade works without messing up your data. Certain unusual configurations were not handled correctly in 1809 causing data loss. That's supposedly fixed, though with any o/s upgrade its best to do a full data backup beforehand. There is of course a timing issue: you can't tell when the upgrade will be done other than "sometime on or after the first Patch Tuesday after MS announces public availability" - I have 3 computers and it sometimes takes almost 6 months for all of them to get one.

  6. #6
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    A proper "in-place" upgrade, like a Service Pack or Feature Update shouldn't affect any installed applications. The Registry is preserved and only the contents of the Windows folder is changed. And nowadays, the updater makes at least a differential backup of anything that's changed and keeps on your drive for 30 days to allow rollbacks.

    If you do a "refresh" or whatever Microsoft calls it nowadays, then yes, installed applications will be kicked out of the Registry and only your data files will be preserved. Sometimes if a Feature Update in Win10 fails, it will retry as a "refresh" -- so you need to keep an eye on it and don't just click "OK" if it runs into any problems. Better to roll back to its previous un-upgraded state and try later.

    Most of the time what messes up MSTS is any changes to references to the graphics driver during an upgrade. Which can usually be fixed by running MPROFILE.EXE found in the MSTS folder.


    MSTS-Roundhouse

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricF View Post
    A proper "in-place" upgrade, like a Service Pack or Feature Update shouldn't affect any installed applications. The Registry is preserved and only the contents of the Windows folder is changed. And nowadays, the updater makes at least a differential backup of anything that's changed and keeps on your drive for 30 days to allow rollbacks.

    If you do a "refresh" or whatever Microsoft calls it nowadays, then yes, installed applications will be kicked out of the Registry and only your data files will be preserved. Sometimes if a Feature Update in Win10 fails, it will retry as a "refresh" -- so you need to keep an eye on it and don't just click "OK" if it runs into any problems. Better to roll back to its previous un-upgraded state and try later.

    Most of the time what messes up MSTS is any changes to references to the graphics driver during an upgrade. Which can usually be fixed by running MPROFILE.EXE found in the MSTS folder.
    You're correct about "should." "Does" is sometimes different. Though since about the 1803 release I've had pretty good luck with Windows 10 not messing with installed software during a Feature Update; something must have changed in their process around that time. A "Fresh Install" though is a complete manual OS replacement; you can choose to save your data (and if MSTS is installed at the root level of the disk as it should be, it's just data) and that will usually work, but anything that MS doesn't supply with the OS is uninstalled. For MSTS, that requires restoring the registry entries even though the files are not affected.

    I have found, unfortunately, that Win10 occasionally seems to need a Fresh Install, separately from the Feature Update process. The timing varies for my 3 computers - the desktop has only needed it once, while the tablet seems to need it about once a year. Laptop is in between. Not sure what goes wrong; the system just slows down and starts doing random reboots, even though Defender is perfectly happy in terms of malware detection. Yes, I do use old hardware, and drivers may be part of it. So I am prepared (the Windows list of what it uninstalled helps, but is incomplete) to rebuild the system from recent installers at all times. I might have reinstalled Win7 (in its day) once on the desktop outside of hardware (hard disk) changes and the Service Pack, so in that sense Win10 is not quite as stable though it's normally fine.

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